|
Post by yanto on Jan 6, 2018 13:31:29 GMT
My support for Wales will continue regardless of who is successful with their application for the Manager's job. However, Ryan Giggs is probably the most 'marmite' applicant ever for the post. Even his family don't want him appointed for obvious reasons, and I shudder to think what the atmosphere at CCS would be like if he struggled in post. I assume you're too young to remember Bobby 'mad dog' Gould butt?
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 6, 2018 13:33:35 GMT
Post by sleepy on Jan 6, 2018 13:33:35 GMT
I don't think Coleman had universal support at appointment. Have a look at some threads from late 2011. Giggs wouldn't be my first choice either, however i will get behind whoever is appointed and would expect and advise others to do likewise. This isn't a club job - there are only 4 competitive games in 2018, and then 10 in 2019. Hard to get sacked based on a handful of games. If we want to qualify for Euro 2020 we all need to back the new guy. Is 2020 qualification a fair ask given how few competitive tournaments weāve been in as a nation? That would give him less than two years in the job if itās a key target. A Facebook page this morning was all āno to Giggsā etc. Yes I do think Euro 2020 qualification should be the target for the next manager. It's a lot easier than qualifying for the World Cup. There are ten groups, and the top 2 qualify directly for the finals. There are then 4 more places up for grabs via the Nations League playoffs (in March 2020). It will be very difficult for us not to at least make the Nations League playoffs - in fact, we could lose our next 14 competitive games and still make the playoffs. So I suppose all the Giggs haters could hope that he does that badly that he's sacked in time for someone else to take the playoffs in March 2020. Would be a pretty toxic atmosphere at games though.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 6, 2018 13:36:41 GMT
Post by yanto on Jan 6, 2018 13:36:41 GMT
I don't think Coleman had universal support at appointment. Have a look at some threads from late 2011. Giggs wouldn't be my first choice either, however i will get behind whoever is appointed and would expect and advise others to do likewise. This isn't a club job - there are only 4 competitive games in 2018, and then 10 in 2019. Hard to get sacked based on a handful of games. If we want to qualify for Euro 2020 we all need to back the new guy. Is 2020 qualification a fair ask given how few competitive tournaments weāve been in as a nation? That would give him less than two years in the job if itās a key target. A Facebook page this morning was all āno to Giggsā etc. Its a reasonable target but for those who think we are one of the worlds top side, it has to be guaranteed. And the 2022 WC as well, getting knocked out of the latter at the semis stage would probably have this forum in meltdown mind.........
|
|
|
Post by yanto on Jan 6, 2018 13:42:38 GMT
Is 2020 qualification a fair ask given how few competitive tournaments weāve been in as a nation? That would give him less than two years in the job if itās a key target. A Facebook page this morning was all āno to Giggsā etc. Yes I do think Euro 2020 qualification should be the target for the next manager. It's a lot easier than qualifying for the World Cup. There are ten groups, and the top 2 qualify directly for the finals. There are then 4 more places up for grabs via the Nations League playoffs (in March 2020). It will be very difficult for us not to at least make the Nations League playoffs - in fact, we could lose our next 14 competitive games and still make the playoffs. So I suppose all the Giggs haters could hope that he does that badly that he's sacked in time for someone else to take the playoffs in March 2020. Would be a pretty toxic atmosphere at games though. Bit of context though, whoever comes in inherits a side who failed to qualify for the WC and did not even make the play offs i.e. second place. We still have the same pool of relatively limited resources where if 2 of our best players are out we struggle. Why fans would create a toxic atmosphere is beyond me, this can only be for recent (i.e.last 10 years) fans surely? The rest of us will get behind the team no matter what.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 6, 2018 16:14:49 GMT
Post by joseywales37 on Jan 6, 2018 16:14:49 GMT
Iām sensing this is going to be a deeply divisive appointment. Speed or Coleman seemed to have universal support but thereās going to be tensions in the stands with Giggs in charge. Too many are vehemently opposed to him. Not just on here either. Most were against Cookie to be fair. Speed was reasonably popular with those who could be bothered to give our national team a chance, but for the most part the crowds did not turn up. A lot of the people on social media saying stuff against Giggs are only saying it because they heard someone else say it, because the likelihood is that most of them were not present at any matches back in the day apart from maybe the odd time we filled Millennium. There was definitely not this anti Giggs thing going on when he was officially still Wales player, and even got standing ovation on last game. I attended lots of games he played in and most were supportive of him back then.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 6, 2018 16:22:30 GMT
Post by joseywales37 on Jan 6, 2018 16:22:30 GMT
I don't think Coleman had universal support at appointment. Have a look at some threads from late 2011. Giggs wouldn't be my first choice either, however i will get behind whoever is appointed and would expect and advise others to do likewise. This isn't a club job - there are only 4 competitive games in 2018, and then 10 in 2019. Hard to get sacked based on a handful of games. If we want to qualify for Euro 2020 we all need to back the new guy. Is 2020 qualification a fair ask given how few competitive tournaments weāve been in as a nation? That would give him less than two years in the job if itās a key target. A Facebook page this morning was all āno to Giggsā etc. That's ridiculous, when you look at most of the arguments on Social media, its all slept with so and so or friendlies . Pathetic
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 6, 2018 16:40:07 GMT
Post by joseywales37 on Jan 6, 2018 16:40:07 GMT
My support for Wales will continue regardless of who is successful with their application for the Manager's job. However, Ryan Giggs is probably the most 'marmite' applicant ever for the post. Even his family don't want him appointed for obvious reasons, and I shudder to think what the atmosphere at CCS would be like if he struggled in post. I imagine at his first match a round of applause, a few new Giggs chants, a few Giggs banners. It's what happens after that that worries me. Will we lose a match and those feelings of him being inexperienced and out of the game for so long boil over? Will we question his abilities to coach and set up a team if we're being tactically outclassed? Will he have a calm demeanour in interviews and on the touch line that people will see as not passionate enough? Will he have less of a presence off the pitch and be seen as not committed to the job? These days with social media everything is looked at in great detail. As long as we're winning he'll be proving his doubters wrong, but when that first loss comes out come all the doubts. I hope for him it'll be the first match in a double header and he can quickly put it right a few days later, if we have to wait months on a loss... I suspect that knowing some of us Wales fans, a few will stay away to start with to try prove their point, then if we look like we doing good and maybe losing 1 or 2, some will come back thinking maybe just maybe il give him a chance, if we winning most will do what they do with every Wales manager and team and be looking for tickets. If we losing and not looking good a lot will just be like I told you so. This is what we tend to do to every manager we have. Social media some people look into great detail, a lot don't and just jump on any bandwagon, whether they have looked in depth about a subject and then made up their own mind or if they have just taken what some one else has said and then used that, just like what is going on with Giggs at this moment. Can anyone honestly say that a lot of the judges appearing on social media were around giving us their full support back when Giggs was playing for us ?, and out of the hordes who were not, is it safe to say that the arguments they are coming up with against him are just because they heard someone else say stuff and they don't really know much about what they are talking about ?
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Jan 6, 2018 18:25:28 GMT
I imagine at his first match a round of applause, a few new Giggs chants, a few Giggs banners. It's what happens after that that worries me. Will we lose a match and those feelings of him being inexperienced and out of the game for so long boil over? Will we question his abilities to coach and set up a team if we're being tactically outclassed? Will he have a calm demeanour in interviews and on the touch line that people will see as not passionate enough? Will he have less of a presence off the pitch and be seen as not committed to the job? These days with social media everything is looked at in great detail. As long as we're winning he'll be proving his doubters wrong, but when that first loss comes out come all the doubts. I hope for him it'll be the first match in a double header and he can quickly put it right a few days later, if we have to wait months on a loss... I suspect that knowing some of us Wales fans, a few will stay away to start with to try prove their point, then if we look like we doing good and maybe losing 1 or 2, some will come back thinking maybe just maybe il give him a chance, if we winning most will do what they do with every Wales manager and team and be looking for tickets. If we losing and not looking good a lot will just be like I told you so. This is what we tend to do to every manager we have. Social media some people look into great detail, a lot don't and just jump on any bandwagon, whether they have looked in depth about a subject and then made up their own mind or if they have just taken what some one else has said and then used that, just like what is going on with Giggs at this moment. Can anyone honestly say that a lot of the judges appearing on social media were around giving us their full support back when Giggs was playing for us ?, and out of the hordes who were not, is it safe to say that the arguments they are coming up with against him are just because they heard someone else say stuff and they don't really know much about what they are talking about ? When he was playing I thought the world of Giggs. It's the same with Hartson, I have so much respect for Hartson and obviously he's faced challenges most never will, when I saw he applied for the job though I thought "yeah.... er.... no", I want it for him but we just have to pick someone who isn't a gamble. If we were in a mess I'd support taking a gamble on Giggs but in my opinion we'll never have a Bale, a Ramsey and an Allen supported by exciting players like Woodburn again. From what I can see most don't have an agenda against Giggs they just want what they think is best for Welsh football. I'd debate against Bellamy or Hartson in the same way but they don't have a vocal almost cult following on here.
|
|
|
Post by gwernybwch on Jan 6, 2018 18:27:51 GMT
Iām sensing this is going to be a deeply divisive appointment. Speed or Coleman seemed to have universal support but thereās going to be tensions in the stands with Giggs in charge. Too many are vehemently opposed to him. Not just on here either. Most were against Cookie to be fair. Speed was reasonably popular with those who could be bothered to give our national team a chance, but for the most part the crowds did not turn up. A lot of the people on social media saying stuff against Giggs are only saying it because they heard someone else say it, because the likelihood is that most of them were not present at any matches back in the day apart from maybe the odd time we filled Millennium. There was definitely not this anti Giggs thing going on when he was officially still Wales player, and even got standing ovation on last game. I attended lots of games he played in and most were supportive of him back then. An awful lot of the people using the #AnyoneButGiggs hashtag were people that I recognised from the Wales Away games from the dark games, so I can't believe it is from people who are saying it because they have heard it from someone else. What has happened since Giggs has retired is that we have a set of players that have shown their selfless commitment to playing to their country, this has highlighted the lack of commitment that he had to his Country.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 6, 2018 19:13:07 GMT
Post by joseywales37 on Jan 6, 2018 19:13:07 GMT
I suspect that knowing some of us Wales fans, a few will stay away to start with to try prove their point, then if we look like we doing good and maybe losing 1 or 2, some will come back thinking maybe just maybe il give him a chance, if we winning most will do what they do with every Wales manager and team and be looking for tickets. If we losing and not looking good a lot will just be like I told you so. This is what we tend to do to every manager we have. Social media some people look into great detail, a lot don't and just jump on any bandwagon, whether they have looked in depth about a subject and then made up their own mind or if they have just taken what some one else has said and then used that, just like what is going on with Giggs at this moment. Can anyone honestly say that a lot of the judges appearing on social media were around giving us their full support back when Giggs was playing for us ?, and out of the hordes who were not, is it safe to say that the arguments they are coming up with against him are just because they heard someone else say stuff and they don't really know much about what they are talking about ? When he was playing I thought the world of Giggs. It's the same with Hartson, I have so much respect for Hartson and obviously he's faced challenges most never will, when I saw he applied for the job though I thought "yeah.... er.... no", I want it for him but we just have to pick someone who isn't a gamble. If we were in a mess I'd support taking a gamble on Giggs but in my opinion we'll never have a Bale, a Ramsey and an Allen supported by exciting players like Woodburn again. From what I can see most don't have an agenda against Giggs they just want what they think is best for Welsh football. I'd debate against Bellamy or Hartson in the same way but they don't have a vocal almost cult following on here. I completely respect that you were one of the hardcore around when Giggs was a player for us, but imo there are a hell of a lot who were not and a lot are taking to social media going on about the friendlies and who he slept with like they were all around when he played to half empty stadiums, or you might have had the odd few who went when the Mill stad was occasionally full. The furore about the friendlies was almost non existent compared to now when Giggs was being substituted on his 64th cap, in fact he had standing ovation. A lot of the people have never even considered reading his book where it touches on the supposed agreement between Utd and Wales and how this changed when Toshack took charge again. With Hartson having zero coaching experience id love to see him doing something with the really low age groups, because as you said that man has won so many battles already, absolutely love the guy, I think we would all love him on board somehow. As for working with youngsters who are now 1st teamers, I just can't see how they would not be in awe of working with the likes of Giggs, in fact Brooks and Woodburn remind me more of Giggs style than Bale. Some footballers just inspire other footballers by being who they are.
|
|
|
Post by joseywales37 on Jan 6, 2018 19:35:13 GMT
Most were against Cookie to be fair. Speed was reasonably popular with those who could be bothered to give our national team a chance, but for the most part the crowds did not turn up. A lot of the people on social media saying stuff against Giggs are only saying it because they heard someone else say it, because the likelihood is that most of them were not present at any matches back in the day apart from maybe the odd time we filled Millennium. There was definitely not this anti Giggs thing going on when he was officially still Wales player, and even got standing ovation on last game. I attended lots of games he played in and most were supportive of him back then. An awful lot of the people using the #AnyoneButGiggs hashtag were people that I recognised from the Wales Away games from the dark games, so I can't believe it is from people who are saying it because they have heard it from someone else. What has happened since Giggs has retired is that we have a set of players that have shown their selfless commitment to playing to their country, this has highlighted the lack of commitment that he had to his Country. Which dark games tho 90s or noughties or early Cookie era ? lol, if it the 90s era, I just can't understand why they didn't make feelings known back then ? Giggs spent most of his growing up time in England and the only thing he has really done that makes him have anything to do with England is a few pundit jobs, same as Cookie did and if I can remind everyone, he referred to them as 'us', obviously by mistake lol. David Brookes is part English, and even tho I can't stand England , I hope we as fans don't hate on him the same ways as we have of Giggs for saying something to do with England. As far as I'm concerned Giggs blessed us with his international career and no one else. We as a team avoid friendlies for last few years partly because we know our best players will pull out because of injury concerns and obviously ranking system.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 19:47:54 GMT
Is 2020 qualification a fair ask given how few competitive tournaments weāve been in as a nation? That would give him less than two years in the job if itās a key target. A Facebook page this morning was all āno to Giggsā etc. Yes I do think Euro 2020 qualification should be the target for the next manager. It's a lot easier than qualifying for the World Cup. There are ten groups, and the top 2 qualify directly for the finals. There are then 4 more places up for grabs via the Nations League playoffs (in March 2020). It will be very difficult for us not to at least make the Nations League playoffs - in fact, we could lose our next 14 competitive games and still make the playoffs. So I suppose all the Giggs haters could hope that he does that badly that he's sacked in time for someone else to take the playoffs in March 2020. Would be a pretty toxic atmosphere at games though. Itās been written to death on here but the home draw with Georgia did the damage in our last campaign. Serbia was plain bad luck after with Bale hitting the post and them equalising shortly afterwards. Coleman probably knew it was time for a new man. Iāve experienced schisms amongst fans with Alex McCleish at Aston Villa and Mark Hughes at Man City. Itāll happen with Giggs here albeit from a different angle. An Anglicised Welshman (never eligible to play for England at senior level) not 100% committed to his country. Friendlies are an essential way to try out new tactics and blood new talent. Anyone who hopes he does badly can go to hell.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 6, 2018 19:51:14 GMT
Post by gwernybwch on Jan 6, 2018 19:51:14 GMT
An awful lot of the people using the #AnyoneButGiggs hashtag were people that I recognised from the Wales Away games from the dark games, so I can't believe it is from people who are saying it because they have heard it from someone else. What has happened since Giggs has retired is that we have a set of players that have shown their selfless commitment to playing to their country, this has highlighted the lack of commitment that he had to his Country. Which dark games tho 90s or noughties or early Cookie era ? lol, if it the 90s era, I just can't understand why they didn't make feelings known back then ? Giggs spent most of his growing up time in England and the only thing he has really done that makes him have anything to do with England is a few pundit jobs, same as Cookie did and if I can remind everyone, he referred to them as 'us', obviously by mistake lol. David Brookes is part English, and even tho I can't stand England , I hope we as fans don't hate on him the same ways as we have of Giggs for saying something to do with England. As far as I'm concerned Giggs blessed us with his international career and no one else. We as a team avoid friendlies for last few years partly because we know our best players will pull out because of injury concerns and obviously ranking system. Which dark days? You might recall that Wales was managed by a bloke called Bobby Gould. I can remember even back then Giggs getting stick from a section of (particularly at away games) from fans. Where did I mention anything about the country where you were born or raised? If anything 'Anglo' players like John Robinson, Ashley Williams who have 'chosen' to play for Wales highlights Giggs lack of commitment. I was thinking more of Carl Robinson (flew from Toronto to play for Wales), Bellamy (regularly received pain killing injections to play for Wales) or Bale; who plays for a world class club, but still never calls in sick for a Wales game because a tight hamstring.
|
|
|
Post by 1gwaunview on Jan 6, 2018 20:20:05 GMT
My support for Wales will continue regardless of who is successful with their application for the Manager's job. However, Ryan Giggs is probably the most 'marmite' applicant ever for the post. Even his family don't want him appointed for obvious reasons, and I shudder to think what the atmosphere at CCS would be like if he struggled in post. I assume you're too young to remember Bobby 'mad dog' Gould butt? Hello Yanto, saw all of ' anyone but Bobby Gould ' home games, and agree he was a very poor Wales manager. I don't remember the level of animosity against him when he first tookover as with Giggs now though. Saw my first Wales game in 1975 and most home games since and I'm backing Osian.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 6, 2018 20:36:10 GMT
Post by joseywales37 on Jan 6, 2018 20:36:10 GMT
Which dark games tho 90s or noughties or early Cookie era ? lol, if it the 90s era, I just can't understand why they didn't make feelings known back then ? Giggs spent most of his growing up time in England and the only thing he has really done that makes him have anything to do with England is a few pundit jobs, same as Cookie did and if I can remind everyone, he referred to them as 'us', obviously by mistake lol. David Brookes is part English, and even tho I can't stand England , I hope we as fans don't hate on him the same ways as we have of Giggs for saying something to do with England. As far as I'm concerned Giggs blessed us with his international career and no one else. We as a team avoid friendlies for last few years partly because we know our best players will pull out because of injury concerns and obviously ranking system. Which dark days? You might recall that Wales was managed by a bloke called Bobby Gould. I can remember even back then Giggs getting stick from a section of (particularly at away games) from fans. Where did I mention anything about the country where you were born or raised? If anything 'Anglo' players like John Robinson, Ashley Williams who have 'chosen' to play for Wales highlights Giggs lack of commitment. I was thinking more of Carl Robinson (flew from Toronto to play for Wales), Bellamy (regularly received pain killing injections to play for Wales) or Bale; who plays for a world class club, but still never calls in sick for a Wales game because a tight hamstring. I wasn't being sarcastic when I asked which dark days by the way, of course I remember Bobby Gould, I just genuinely didn't know which era you were referring to. When I say about making feelings known, I meant with the vitriol that there seems to be now, the people I was surrounded by obviously wanted to see Giggs in every game and were disappointed when he didn't play, but many also knew that it wasn't mainly down to him. You were talking of commitment and I was just trying to highlight the fact Giggs grew up mostly in England as part of class of 92 group where most know Fergie had an iron grip on, who a lot of players were scared shitless of, I have no doubt that Giggs was very committed to Wales and looking back I think Giggs situation was dealt with in best way with friendlies (we all by now have heard of the supposed agreement between United and Wales I take it) taking into consideration what is now happening with Bale now starting to miss competitive games. Do you think Bale would play with tight hamstring ?
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Jan 6, 2018 21:57:12 GMT
When he was playing I thought the world of Giggs. It's the same with Hartson, I have so much respect for Hartson and obviously he's faced challenges most never will, when I saw he applied for the job though I thought "yeah.... er.... no", I want it for him but we just have to pick someone who isn't a gamble. If we were in a mess I'd support taking a gamble on Giggs but in my opinion we'll never have a Bale, a Ramsey and an Allen supported by exciting players like Woodburn again. From what I can see most don't have an agenda against Giggs they just want what they think is best for Welsh football. I'd debate against Bellamy or Hartson in the same way but they don't have a vocal almost cult following on here. I completely respect that you were one of the hardcore around when Giggs was a player for us, but imo there are a hell of a lot who were not and a lot are taking to social media going on about the friendlies and who he slept with like they were all around when he played to half empty stadiums, or you might have had the odd few who went when the Mill stad was occasionally full. The furore about the friendlies was almost non existent compared to now when Giggs was being substituted on his 64th cap, in fact he had standing ovation. A lot of the people have never even considered reading his book where it touches on the supposed agreement between Utd and Wales and how this changed when Toshack took charge again. With Hartson having zero coaching experience id love to see him doing something with the really low age groups, because as you said that man has won so many battles already, absolutely love the guy, I think we would all love him on board somehow. As for working with youngsters who are now 1st teamers, I just can't see how they would not be in awe of working with the likes of Giggs, in fact Brooks and Woodburn remind me more of Giggs style than Bale. Some footballers just inspire other footballers by being who they are. I can only look at it through the eyes of the players. Bale and Ramsey are trying to get Robinson, maybe it's a myth how inspirational Giggs is. He could be just somebody who could bring it on the pitch, off the pitch contributed nothing. I've worked with people I admired as a kid, 3 months later I couldn't stand being in the same room as them, the novelty wears off quickly. There is a saying you should never meet your heroes, they might be in awe but that quickly changes when things don't go right.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 1:31:26 GMT
Post by saints19 on Jan 7, 2018 1:31:26 GMT
I don't think Coleman had universal support at appointment. Have a look at some threads from late 2011. Giggs wouldn't be my first choice either, however i will get behind whoever is appointed and would expect and advise others to do likewise. This isn't a club job - there are only 4 competitive games in 2018, and then 10 in 2019. Hard to get sacked based on a handful of games. If we want to qualify for Euro 2020 we all need to back the new guy. Is 2020 qualification a fair ask given how few competitive tournaments weāve been in as a nation? That would give him less than two years in the job if itās a key target. A Facebook page this morning was all āno to Giggsā etc. Qualification has to be the aim with top two in group automatically qualifying, plus Nations League play-offs. The only easier tournament to qualify for was Euro 2016. Is the squad good enough to finish in the top 2 with a decent draw? Yes.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 4:33:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by marsvolta on Jan 7, 2018 4:33:15 GMT
Iām sensing this is going to be a deeply divisive appointment. Speed or Coleman seemed to have universal support but thereās going to be tensions in the stands with Giggs in charge. Too many are vehemently opposed to him. Not just on here either. I can assure you that Speed and Coleman did not have universal support. Look back on these forums to when they were appointed,loads were against both appointments. If Giggs gets the role there won't be 'tensions in the stands'.Just about everyone who posts something anti-Giggs ends their post with 'but he will have my full support should he be appointed' Most just want the best for Wales and there certainly will not be many hoping that he fails if he is given the role.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 7:36:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by cymroircarn on Jan 7, 2018 7:36:28 GMT
When he was playing I thought the world of Giggs. It's the same with Hartson, I have so much respect for Hartson and obviously he's faced challenges most never will, when I saw he applied for the job though I thought "yeah.... er.... no", I want it for him but we just have to pick someone who isn't a gamble. If we were in a mess I'd support taking a gamble on Giggs but in my opinion we'll never have a Bale, a Ramsey and an Allen supported by exciting players like Woodburn again. From what I can see most don't have an agenda against Giggs they just want what they think is best for Welsh football. I'd debate against Bellamy or Hartson in the same way but they don't have a vocal almost cult following on here. I completely respect that you were one of the hardcore around when Giggs was a player for us, but imo there are a hell of a lot who were not and a lot are taking to social media going on about the friendlies and who he slept with like they were all around when he played to half empty stadiums, or you might have had the odd few who went when the Mill stad was occasionally full. The furore about the friendlies was almost non existent compared to now when Giggs was being substituted on his 64th cap, in fact he had standing ovation. A lot of the people have never even considered reading his book where it touches on the supposed agreement between Utd and Wales and how this changed when Toshack took charge again. With Hartson having zero coaching experience id love to see him doing something with the really low age groups, because as you said that man has won so many battles already, absolutely love the guy, I think we would all love him on board somehow. As for working with youngsters who are now 1st teamers, I just can't see how they would not be in awe of working with the likes of Giggs, in fact Brooks and Woodburn remind me more of Giggs style than Bale. Some footballers just inspire other footballers by being who they are. Hartson has coaching experience with Wales. He was part of the team with Coleman in the early days. He has also been at Newport County and Livingston. So to say he has zero coaching experience is incorrect.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 7:58:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by cymroircarn on Jan 7, 2018 7:58:03 GMT
Iām sensing this is going to be a deeply divisive appointment. Speed or Coleman seemed to have universal support but thereās going to be tensions in the stands with Giggs in charge. Too many are vehemently opposed to him. Not just on here either. I can assure you that Speed and Coleman did not have universal support. Look back on these forums to when they were appointed,loads were against both appointments. If Giggs gets the role there won't be 'tensions in the stands'.Just about everyone who posts something anti-Giggs ends their post with 'but he will have my full support should he be appointed' Most just want the best for Wales and there certainly will not be many hoping that he fails if he is given the role. Some comments on here are in response to seeing things on other social media. This thread title for starters should be changed as I have not seen hate on this message board, but discussion on a high profile candidate. For me we should be discussing his credentials as a manager only not his playing or personal history. Is he the best man for the job and why? I personally donāt think so as outside of the Man Utd bubble he has no experience. I believe there could be a lack of commitment from his side or worrying still a competency issue hence why he has not had a football management role in the last 2 years except for punditry. Edit: Now favourite for Stoke role. Will be interesting to see how this plays out but from a Wales perspective timing is wrong with both roles available at the same time. How hard would it be to take up a coaching (even part time) position elsewhere? Iām sorry but the Salford argument does not stick for me. If it did, then we should be considering other coaches at that level which we are not. From the original list Pulis was the only one for me that had the experience but there were big question marks over his playing style. Now according to the press we have 3 inexperience front runners. Osian - outstanding coach well respected. Can he step up to be a manger? Many excellent number 2ās have failed in the past. I would love him to be a success but it is a major risk with his other role at the FAW. Bellamy - ex-player who is working himself up working with youth development. Has a football brain and speaks very well. Maybe too early? Giggs - a number of years at Man Utd coaching staff with 4 games as manager but no management exerience in the last 2 years. Maybe too early? I wish heād actually done something of value outside of Man Utd to test himself. His qualities are all guess work at this stage. Robinson is also in the mix and is the most experienced manager of the ones so far but the level of football is difficult to gauge. Would be an interesting appointment but maybe too early? Potential dream team with Osian? Hughes has become available, has a number of years experience. The way he left last time left a sour taste with some and his style of play may be questionable? Will be interesting if he throws his hat in the ring but for some reason I donāt see it happening. Therefore in conclusion I donāt see a standout candidate but maybe a Robinson/Osian team would be the best fit of those we believe are interested in the role? I also hope Giggs and Bellamy do get a top job somewhere so we can see what he brings so they are in the running for the next time.
|
|
|
Post by CrackityJones on Jan 7, 2018 8:34:11 GMT
I second the call to remove āhateā from the title of this thread, it makes those opposed to Giggs seem irrational. One of the mods will have to do it because the OP hasnāt been on here much since they started the thread, something Iāve always found a bit suspect.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 9:01:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 9:01:36 GMT
Iām sensing this is going to be a deeply divisive appointment. Speed or Coleman seemed to have universal support but thereās going to be tensions in the stands with Giggs in charge. Too many are vehemently opposed to him. Not just on here either. I can assure you that Speed and Coleman did not have universal support. Look back on these forums to when they were appointed,loads were against both appointments. If Giggs gets the role there won't be 'tensions in the stands'.Just about everyone who posts something anti-Giggs ends their post with 'but he will have my full support should he be appointed' Most just want the best for Wales and there certainly will not be many hoping that he fails if he is given the role. Did anyone doubt Speed or Colemanās commitment to Wales like they have Giggsā? Call it gut instinct but I firmly believe this appointment will divide much further than his predecessors. People simply donāt like him.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 10:28:37 GMT
Post by yanto on Jan 7, 2018 10:28:37 GMT
Which dark games tho 90s or noughties or early Cookie era ? lol, if it the 90s era, I just can't understand why they didn't make feelings known back then ? Giggs spent most of his growing up time in England and the only thing he has really done that makes him have anything to do with England is a few pundit jobs, same as Cookie did and if I can remind everyone, he referred to them as 'us', obviously by mistake lol. David Brookes is part English, and even tho I can't stand England , I hope we as fans don't hate on him the same ways as we have of Giggs for saying something to do with England. As far as I'm concerned Giggs blessed us with his international career and no one else. We as a team avoid friendlies for last few years partly because we know our best players will pull out because of injury concerns and obviously ranking system. Which dark days? You might recall that Wales was managed by a bloke called Bobby Gould. I can remember even back then Giggs getting stick from a section of (particularly at away games) from fans. Where did I mention anything about the country where you were born or raised? If anything 'Anglo' players like John Robinson, Ashley Williams who have 'chosen' to play for Wales highlights Giggs lack of commitment. I was thinking more of Carl Robinson (flew from Toronto to play for Wales), Bellamy (regularly received pain killing injections to play for Wales) or Bale; who plays for a world class club, but still never calls in sick for a Wales game because a tight hamstring. Comparing Williams and Giggs in respect of commitment is somewhat apples and pears. Williams joined Wales to enhance his career first and foremost and was not under the level of pressure Giggs was under and clearly not playing at his level. You could look at it differently and suggest that gaining 65 caps actually did show commitment rather than wholly focusing on the friendly issue. As stated elsewhere Giggs joined us when players were still going on the lash, as a young impressionable man to continue on regardless shows some mettle.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 10:33:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by cymroircarn on Jan 7, 2018 10:33:36 GMT
Which dark days? You might recall that Wales was managed by a bloke called Bobby Gould. I can remember even back then Giggs getting stick from a section of (particularly at away games) from fans. Where did I mention anything about the country where you were born or raised? If anything 'Anglo' players like John Robinson, Ashley Williams who have 'chosen' to play for Wales highlights Giggs lack of commitment. I was thinking more of Carl Robinson (flew from Toronto to play for Wales), Bellamy (regularly received pain killing injections to play for Wales) or Bale; who plays for a world class club, but still never calls in sick for a Wales game because a tight hamstring. Comparing Williams and Giggs in respect of commitment is somewhat apples and pears. Williams joined Wales to enhance his career first and foremost and was not under the level of pressure Giggs was under and clearly not playing at his level. You could look at it differently and suggest that gaining 65 caps actually did show commitment rather than wholly focusing on the friendly issue. As stated elsewhere Giggs joined us when players were still going on the lash, as a young impressionable man to continue on regardless shows some mettle. Not sure what relevance the āgoing on the lashā comment has as Man Utd bad one of the biggest drininkig cultures in English football so Giggs would have been well aware of it prior to joining the Wales camp?
|
|
|
Post by gwernybwch on Jan 7, 2018 10:46:30 GMT
Which dark days? You might recall that Wales was managed by a bloke called Bobby Gould. I can remember even back then Giggs getting stick from a section of (particularly at away games) from fans. Where did I mention anything about the country where you were born or raised? If anything 'Anglo' players like John Robinson, Ashley Williams who have 'chosen' to play for Wales highlights Giggs lack of commitment. I was thinking more of Carl Robinson (flew from Toronto to play for Wales), Bellamy (regularly received pain killing injections to play for Wales) or Bale; who plays for a world class club, but still never calls in sick for a Wales game because a tight hamstring. Comparing Williams and Giggs in respect of commitment is somewhat apples and pears. Williams joined Wales to enhance his career first and foremost and was not under the level of pressure Giggs was under and clearly not playing at his level. You could look at it differently and suggest that gaining 65 caps actually did show commitment rather than wholly focusing on the friendly issue. As stated elsewhere Giggs joined us when players were still going on the lash, as a young impressionable man to continue on regardless shows some mettle. Williams choose to PLAY for Wales in order to enhance his playing career. Giggs choose NOT TO PLAY for Wales in order to enhance his. It's as simple as that.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 13:35:45 GMT
Post by yanto on Jan 7, 2018 13:35:45 GMT
Comparing Williams and Giggs in respect of commitment is somewhat apples and pears. Williams joined Wales to enhance his career first and foremost and was not under the level of pressure Giggs was under and clearly not playing at his level. You could look at it differently and suggest that gaining 65 caps actually did show commitment rather than wholly focusing on the friendly issue. As stated elsewhere Giggs joined us when players were still going on the lash, as a young impressionable man to continue on regardless shows some mettle. Williams choose to PLAY for Wales in order to enhance his playing career. Giggs choose NOT TO PLAY for Wales in order to enhance his. It's as simple as that. Lol......Giggs did play for Wales 65 timesš
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 14:26:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by conwy10 on Jan 7, 2018 14:26:42 GMT
Is 2020 qualification a fair ask given how few competitive tournaments weāve been in as a nation? That would give him less than two years in the job if itās a key target. A Facebook page this morning was all āno to Giggsā etc. Qualification has to be the aim with top two in group automatically qualifying, plus Nations League play-offs. The only easier tournament to qualify for was Euro 2016. Is the squad good enough to finish in the top 2 with a decent draw? Yes. Haven't looked at the seedlings in months but I'm guessing we'll get Germany, Italy, Wales, Holland, Georgia, Kosovo
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 15:10:49 GMT
Post by ontheroadagain on Jan 7, 2018 15:10:49 GMT
This thread title for starters should be changed as I have not seen hate on this message board, but discussion on a high profile candidate.
Title of thread amended as requested.
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 15:17:43 GMT
Post by joseywales37 on Jan 7, 2018 15:17:43 GMT
I completely respect that you were one of the hardcore around when Giggs was a player for us, but imo there are a hell of a lot who were not and a lot are taking to social media going on about the friendlies and who he slept with like they were all around when he played to half empty stadiums, or you might have had the odd few who went when the Mill stad was occasionally full. The furore about the friendlies was almost non existent compared to now when Giggs was being substituted on his 64th cap, in fact he had standing ovation. A lot of the people have never even considered reading his book where it touches on the supposed agreement between Utd and Wales and how this changed when Toshack took charge again. With Hartson having zero coaching experience id love to see him doing something with the really low age groups, because as you said that man has won so many battles already, absolutely love the guy, I think we would all love him on board somehow. As for working with youngsters who are now 1st teamers, I just can't see how they would not be in awe of working with the likes of Giggs, in fact Brooks and Woodburn remind me more of Giggs style than Bale. Some footballers just inspire other footballers by being who they are. Hartson has coaching experience with Wales. He was part of the team with Coleman in the early days. He has also been at Newport County and Livingston. So to say he has zero coaching experience is incorrect. OK a little bit of experience lol
|
|
|
Giggs
Jan 7, 2018 15:27:27 GMT
Post by joseywales37 on Jan 7, 2018 15:27:27 GMT
This thread title for starters should be changed as I have not seen hate on this message board, but discussion on a high profile candidate. Title of thread amended as requested. Some people on social media do act like they hate him tho, the debate on here is a bit fairer obviously, but some on social media have been vile and its pathetic really.
|
|