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Giggs
Jan 18, 2018 20:33:36 GMT
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 18, 2018 20:33:36 GMT
And of course we may never know if the same number of friendlies were available would Bale play? Another aspect which we will never know is how often managers requested his attendence and didn't argue it, which would have to include what they said publically and what actually happened? When did the rule on countries been able to demand someone turn up to be assessed? So many questions, so little relevance.....😀😁 Many feel like Bale has been far more committed to Wales than Giggs was and that's been an important factor in our success in recent years. Who knows, if Giggs was as committed it might have helped us develop a better culture back in his day akin to the current group who look forward to meeting up with each other. Therefore, comparing Giggs and Bale's records is completely valid, but that article failed to do it in a logical way. As I say, comparing the proportion of friendlies Wales have played during their respective careers that they've actually played in would be the way to do it. I would be very surprised if Bale wouldn't come out far and above Giggs on that measure. Now that Giggs has been appointed manager, I'm happy to give him a go. But all the smug, Giggs apologists are starting to get on my nerves. I think it will be interesting to see how Giggs does manage any pull-outs from his squad for friendlies. If things don’t go well, they could go very badly quickly.
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Post by pendragon on Jan 18, 2018 21:51:23 GMT
Has anyone else seen his team speech when Manager of Man Utd, probably the least inspiring speech I have ever seen. Yeah seen it and was one of my concerns as I have not seen him inspired before but thought he came across better in his FAW press conference I thought he did reasonably okay in the FAWTV interview. There were some pauses with "erm's" and "but's" that had me a bit worried but overall, I thought it wasn't bad. Public speaking doesn't come naturally to everyone, and here's hoping he'll sort of "grow" into the role with time and exposure. Managing isn't just about inspiring as it involves strategy and depth. And, on the plus side, I did get the sense from that interview that he is very driven and interested in playing an attacking-based football approach.
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 9:09:03 GMT
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Post by welshiron on Jan 19, 2018 9:09:03 GMT
I have not seen one player come out and say they are excited by the appointment with the exception of a keeper Coleman never picked. He also happens to be a man it's fan
Bit worrying
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 11:05:29 GMT
Post by cymruramdcfc on Jan 19, 2018 11:05:29 GMT
I have not seen one player come out and say they are excited by the appointment with the exception of a keeper Coleman never picked. He also happens to be a man it's fan Bit worrying did any come out and say excited with coleman?
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Post by squatter1 on Jan 19, 2018 11:25:01 GMT
Is the internet a true guide for the popularity? Everyone seemed #Remain and anti-Trump before those particular results... Good comparison: the appointment of Giggs is the Brexit/Trump election of Welsh football! I don't like the guy one bit - uninspiring, inexperienced, and a complete c*nt to his own brother. I feel we are gambling our best ever generation on a rookie. Such is the nature of supporting the national team, however, that of course I hope we do well under him, and will support the team. Don't think it will take too many bad results for people to turn against him though.
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 11:46:36 GMT
Post by georgetm1 on Jan 19, 2018 11:46:36 GMT
He should be good at public speaking seeing as he is a pundit for all the England matches on ITV. Also, he can't speak the only language he knows properly. As soon as he said 'them players' instead of 'these players' my head was in my hands thinking that this arsehole is going to represent us on the world stage and we are going to have the foreign press having to correct his shit English language skills. Even when Walesonline wrote an article kissing his arse and repeating what he attempted to say, they had to correct his bad English in the article otherwise he would have sounded like a three year old.
This guy is representing our country during the China Cup and he is going to make our whole country look like uneducated chimps that lack even the most basic of English language skills. Oh yeah, and how the fuck did he become a pundit?
He needs to go back to school because its an embarrassment.
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 12:26:08 GMT
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 19, 2018 12:26:08 GMT
Is the internet a true guide for the popularity? Everyone seemed #Remain and anti-Trump before those particular results... Good comparison: the appointment of Giggs is the Brexit/Trump election of Welsh football! I don't like the guy one bit - uninspiring, inexperienced, and a complete c*nt to his own brother. I feel we are gambling our best ever generation on a rookie. Such is the nature of supporting the national team, however, that of course I hope we do well under him, and will support the team. Don't think it will take too many bad results for people to turn against him though. The 4 interviewed by the FAW were rookies when it comes to management so wouldn’t have mattered who they went with respect to managerial experience We are in the hands of a rookie because these were the 4 best candidates. Given our recent tournament performance I did expect a more experienced Manager to be in the running.
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 12:35:31 GMT
Post by georgetm1 on Jan 19, 2018 12:35:31 GMT
Good comparison: the appointment of Giggs is the Brexit/Trump election of Welsh football! I don't like the guy one bit - uninspiring, inexperienced, and a complete c*nt to his own brother. I feel we are gambling our best ever generation on a rookie. Such is the nature of supporting the national team, however, that of course I hope we do well under him, and will support the team. Don't think it will take too many bad results for people to turn against him though. The 4 interviewed by the FAW were rookies when it comes to management so wouldn’t have mattered who they went with respect to managerial experience We are in the hands of a rookie because these were the 4 best candidates. Given our recent tournament performance I did expect a more experienced Manager to be in the running. Or the FAW did their usual trick and ignored anyone who wasn't Welsh and just went for the Welsh candidates.
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 13:07:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by cymroircarn on Jan 19, 2018 13:07:53 GMT
The 4 interviewed by the FAW were rookies when it comes to management so wouldn’t have mattered who they went with respect to managerial experience We are in the hands of a rookie because these were the 4 best candidates. Given our recent tournament performance I did expect a more experienced Manager to be in the running. Or the FAW did their usual trick and ignored anyone who wasn't Welsh and just went for the Welsh candidates. Of course, but I doubt we’ll ever know!
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 14:21:49 GMT
Post by phillywelsh83 on Jan 19, 2018 14:21:49 GMT
And of course we may never know if the same number of friendlies were available would Bale play? Another aspect which we will never know is how often managers requested his attendence and didn't argue it, which would have to include what they said publically and what actually happened? When did the rule on countries been able to demand someone turn up to be assessed? So many questions, so little relevance.....😀😁 Many feel like Bale has been far more committed to Wales than Giggs was and that's been an important factor in our success in recent years. Who knows, if Giggs was as committed it might have helped us develop a better culture back in his day akin to the current group who look forward to meeting up with each other. Therefore, comparing Giggs and Bale's records is completely valid, but that article failed to do it in a logical way. As I say, comparing the proportion of friendlies Wales have played during their respective careers that they've actually played in would be the way to do it. I would be very surprised if Bale wouldn't come out far and above Giggs on that measure. Now that Giggs has been appointed manager, I'm happy to give him a go. But all the smug, Giggs apologists are starting to get on my nerves. Think you can only really factor in friendlies when Bale was at Real. Its one thing playing for a Tottenham, that then was a perenial Europa League side and Southampton in the Championship, and playing for a team fighting on all fronts for trophies, that Giggs was all his career. Thats the only fair comparison you can do.
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Post by squatter1 on Jan 19, 2018 14:59:51 GMT
Good comparison: the appointment of Giggs is the Brexit/Trump election of Welsh football! I don't like the guy one bit - uninspiring, inexperienced, and a complete c*nt to his own brother. I feel we are gambling our best ever generation on a rookie. Such is the nature of supporting the national team, however, that of course I hope we do well under him, and will support the team. Don't think it will take too many bad results for people to turn against him though. The 4 interviewed by the FAW were rookies when it comes to management so wouldn’t have mattered who they went with respect to managerial experience We are in the hands of a rookie because these were the 4 best candidates. Given our recent tournament performance I did expect a more experienced Manager to be in the running. Ossian is vastly more experienced than Giggs at managing players, what makes this squad tick, and how the entire Welsh setup is concerned. He was my choice.
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 21:51:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 21:51:40 GMT
If we’re to understand that Bellers gave the Hollywood interview then that means Roberts was third at best.
Someone like Brian Kidd has been a great number two at clubs. He never made being a manager his thing.
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Post by zenith on Jan 19, 2018 23:35:04 GMT
Giggs featured in a total of 10 friendlies for Wales out of a possible 40 (25%) - scoring one goal against Finland in 2000. 0.1 goals per friendly ratio. Bale has featured in 15 friendlies so far out of a possible 36 (41%) - scoring three goals against Norway, Austria and Iceland. 0.2 goals per friendly ratio. For easier reading:
| Friendly appearances (percentage attendance) | Goals in friendlies | Goals per friendly ratio | Ryan Giggs | 10 out of a possible 40 (25%) | 1 v Finland (2000) | 0.1 | Gareth Bale | 15 out of a possible 36 (41%) | 1 v Norway (2011) 1 v Austria (2013) 1 v Iceland (2014) | 0.2 |
Since playing for Madrid, Bale has only made 3 friendly games in 4.5 years (out of a possible 9). Absolutely meaningless stats really, but I thought I would share my useless research anyway!
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Giggs
Jan 19, 2018 23:54:55 GMT
Post by zenith on Jan 19, 2018 23:54:55 GMT
I wanted to see how this compares with the two global stars of the game:
| Friendly appearances (percentage attendance) | Goals in friendlies | Goals per friendly ratio | Lionel Messi | 41 out of a possible 70 (58%) | 27 | 0.65 | Cristiano Ronaldo | 43 out of a possible 68 (63%) | 14 | 0.32 |
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Post by CrackityJones on Jan 20, 2018 8:58:35 GMT
Yay another Giggs thread.
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Post by iot on Jan 20, 2018 9:53:28 GMT
Cheers zenith, that's a much more sensible way of looking at it than the BBC analysis. As suspected, Bale has played in a far greater proportion of friendlies available to him. The BBC analysis also showed that Giggs played for Man U immediately after most of the friendlies he missed, whereas I can't think of one example where that's happened with Bale.
I think the whole Giggs friendly thing has been done to death now, but it's also important to correct BBC's analysis when they suggest the stats show Bale's record is 'comparable'.
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 10:03:55 GMT
Post by iot on Jan 20, 2018 10:03:55 GMT
If we’re to understand that Bellers gave the Hollywood interview then that means Roberts was third at best. Someone like Brian Kidd has been a great number two at clubs. He never made being a manager his thing. That means nothing because there are also numerous examples of no. 2s going on to become great managers. I believe Jose Mourinho was an assistant manager early on - under bobby robson I think. Also, look at what Iceland did with their assistant manager stepping up to the top job this last campaign! That's probably the best comparison.
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 10:15:42 GMT
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Post by cymroircarn on Jan 20, 2018 10:15:42 GMT
If we’re to understand that Bellers gave the Hollywood interview then that means Roberts was third at best. Someone like Brian Kidd has been a great number two at clubs. He never made being a manager his thing. That means nothing because there are also numerous examples of no. 2s going on to become great managers. I believe Jose Mourinho was an assistant manager early on - under bobby robson I think. Also, look at what Iceland did with their assistant manager stepping up to the top job this last campaign! That's probably the best comparison. I thought Mourinho was a translator rather than a number 2?
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 10:24:10 GMT
Post by derynglas on Jan 20, 2018 10:24:10 GMT
Interesting that Giggs played 10 friendlies between 2000-2007 so his appearance rate must have been well over 50% in the latter half of his career which is quite acceptable.
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 10:33:07 GMT
Post by yanto on Jan 20, 2018 10:33:07 GMT
Cheers zenith, that's a much more sensible way of looking at it than the BBC analysis. As suspected, Bale has played in a far greater proportion of friendlies available to him. The BBC analysis also showed that Giggs played for Man U immediately after most of the friendlies he missed, whereas I can't think of one example where that's happened with Bale. I think the whole Giggs friendly thing has been done to death now, but it's also important to correct BBC's analysis when they suggest the stats show Bale's record is 'comparable'. The stats obviously are whole career in the case of Giggs, lets see what happens over the next few years eh?
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 10:35:32 GMT
Post by iot on Jan 20, 2018 10:35:32 GMT
That means nothing because there are also numerous examples of no. 2s going on to become great managers. I believe Jose Mourinho was an assistant manager early on - under bobby robson I think. Also, look at what Iceland did with their assistant manager stepping up to the top job this last campaign! That's probably the best comparison. I thought Mourinho was a translator rather than a number 2? Initially, but didn't Robson see more in him and then gave him a different role?
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Post by scoop76 on Jan 20, 2018 10:54:23 GMT
Cheers zenith, that's a much more sensible way of looking at it than the BBC analysis. As suspected, Bale has played in a far greater proportion of friendlies available to him. The BBC analysis also showed that Giggs played for Man U immediately after most of the friendlies he missed, whereas I can't think of one example where that's happened with Bale. I think the whole Giggs friendly thing has been done to death now, but it's also important to correct BBC's analysis when they suggest the stats show Bale's record is 'comparable'. On the other hand, the BBC Sport analysis doesn't look at whether Giggs missed club matches prior to international games; ie. whether he missed a Wales game because he was recovering from injury. Ultimately had the Romania or Russia games turned out differently, Giggs would have retired on 70 plus caps, plus a major tournament, and I think his Wales career would be viewed differently, regardless of friendly absences. Hopefully the current Wales squad will benefit from the reduction of friendlies, and the increase in competitive games will mean the days of player withdrawals are a thing of the past.
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 10:57:27 GMT
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Post by scoop76 on Jan 20, 2018 10:57:27 GMT
In terms of the Messi and Ronaldo analysis, I guess a fair proportion of those matches would be warm up games for major tournaments, rather than end of season friendlies without a competitive game for months.
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 11:10:17 GMT
Post by zenith on Jan 20, 2018 11:10:17 GMT
In terms of the Messi and Ronaldo analysis, I guess a fair proportion of those matches would be warm up games for major tournaments, rather than end of season friendlies without a competitive game for months. Very true, but it shows Messi particularly can turn it on at any single time.
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 11:34:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 11:34:49 GMT
Robbie Savage - "Criticism of Ryan Giggs as Wales boss is just a cheap shot - who cares if he didn't plays some meaningless friendlies" www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ryan-giggs-deserves-only-respect-11880262Cheap shots about missing friendlies haven't changed my opinion about Ryan Giggs as the new Wales manager. It's a great opportunity for him – and an exciting appointment. I go back a long way with Giggs. I remember him coming to trials with Wales Under-15s when his name was Ryan Wilson, I shared a dressing room with him in the Class of '92 at Manchester United and I grew up with him. He's the most decorated player in Premier League history and deserves only respect for everything he has achieved in the game. Put it this way: If you are qualified to play for Wales, and you get a phone call from Ryan Giggs inviting you to join his bandwagon, why would you turn him down? I couldn't care less if he didn't always turn up for meaningless friendlies. I saw the passion when Giggs pulled on the red shirt for Wales: He loved it, he embraced it and I wish him all the luck in the world. Taking on an international job as his first managerial assignment may not be the orthodox route, but Mark Hughes started in the dugout with Wales – and it didn't do him any harm.
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 13:16:42 GMT
Post by traeth on Jan 20, 2018 13:16:42 GMT
Giggs scored in the friendly against the Basque country in 2006
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 14:07:54 GMT
Post by marsvolta on Jan 20, 2018 14:07:54 GMT
Cheers zenith, that's a much more sensible way of looking at it than the BBC analysis. As suspected, Bale has played in a far greater proportion of friendlies available to him. The BBC analysis also showed that Giggs played for Man U immediately after most of the friendlies he missed, whereas I can't think of one example where that's happened with Bale. I think the whole Giggs friendly thing has been done to death now, but it's also important to correct BBC's analysis when they suggest the stats show Bale's record is 'comparable'. The stats obviously are whole career in the case of Giggs, lets see what happens over the next few years eh? The difference is that Bale has already proved his commitment to Wales. I personally have no problem with Bale missing friendlies if we are informed that it is to prevent niggling injuries.If two games in a week would put him at threat of missing a qualifier then i'm happy for him to miss them. The key difference is that we should be kept informed. The difference with Giggs is that we just had a statement from Man Utd saying he was injured before he rocked up to play for United a few days later.This gave the impression that Giggs (or Fergie) was trying to pull the wool over our eyes and didnt care about Wales.This obviously made the Welsh fans feel like we were being taken for mugs. These are different times, we are used to clubs 'resting' players for cup ties,etc so as long as we are kept up to date then it won't be a problem
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 14:13:22 GMT
Post by abwales on Jan 20, 2018 14:13:22 GMT
The only time I remember Bale dodging out of a friendly was in 2014 against the Dutch, he went to Indonesia on a promotional tour, In fact I think Ramsey dodged out of that one too when George Williams had his 5 minutes of fame. There have been a number of times where he has joined up when I haven't expected him to, like straight after signing for Madrid.
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Post by alarch on Jan 20, 2018 21:07:51 GMT
Good contextual stuff.
It's also worth pointing out that Bale, by his own admission, returned too early from injury so he could help Real Madrid win the Champions League last season. This early return probably played a big part in Bale missing all four of our last qualifying matches - and therefore contributed significantly to our failure to qualify for the World Cup.
Do I blame Bale? Not one bit - shit happens. But had it been Giggs in Bale's position, he would have had a lot of grief over it. I'm not exonerating Giggs for his indifferent commitment to the Welsh cause by any stretch of the imagination, nor am I having a go at Bale - but I think it's helpful to have a realistic perspective of the difficult choices that players at the very top of the game, such as Giggs and Bale, are faced with when trying to juggle the demands of club and country.
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Giggs
Jan 20, 2018 21:43:19 GMT
Post by iot on Jan 20, 2018 21:43:19 GMT
Good contextual stuff. It's also worth pointing out that Bale, by his own admission, returned too early from injury so he could help Real Madrid win the Champions League last season. This early return probably played a big part in Bale missing all four of our last qualifying matches - and therefore contributed significantly to our failure to qualify for the World Cup. Do I blame Bale? Not one bit - shit happens. But had it been Giggs in Bale's position, he would have had a lot of grief over it. I'm not exonerating Giggs for his indifferent commitment to the Welsh cause by any stretch of the imagination, nor am I having a go at Bale - but I think it's helpful to have a realistic perspective of the difficult choices that players at the very top of the game, such as Giggs and Bale, are faced with when trying to juggle the demands of club and country. Not sure if that stands up to scrutiny at all. Firstly, Bale only missed the last two matches - not four. Also, didn't Bale miss a month's worth of RM fixtures after the qualifiers?
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