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Post by cadno on Nov 28, 2018 9:51:40 GMT
Disagree mate. He's done more for Wales than a lot of other players coming through. A must have if he is fit and playing football. I admire your optimism. But please look at the facts Played 12 games in over 2 years 17 caps since debut in 2013 Nowhere near the team at Palace Recent loans were Sunderland and Ipswich. Both poor championship sides at the time. Only ever scored 2 senior goals. Not many assists either He is a decent player but by no means a shoe in even if fit. Unfortunately I can't see too many clubs taking a chance on him given his injury record. Hope I'm wrong but can't see him getting 30 caps Tbh the biggest shame is that he has been so unlucky to have had so many injuries over the years. If he wouldn't have had the injuries and played more regularly since breaking through then I'm sure he'd have more goals and assists to his name to impress people. He's shown what he brings to the table with class performances against the likes of Scotland, Croatia, Bosnia, Slovakia... Hopefully he will play regular football before our March fixtures!
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Giggs
Nov 28, 2018 10:32:00 GMT
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Post by welshiron on Nov 28, 2018 10:32:00 GMT
Would be interesting to see if he figures if he gets fit. Just can't see a club taking a chance on him.
Would he be behind Lawrence & Wilson for example
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Post by welshiron on Dec 6, 2018 12:29:05 GMT
Giggs off on a jolly to watch Man u v Fulham
Plenty of Welsh players on view there 😎
Maybe could of gone to a game involving Welsh players but no he is a Manc first and foremost, Wales just pay his wages.
He really doesn't help himself
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Giggs
Dec 6, 2018 14:59:19 GMT
Post by cymruramdcfc on Dec 6, 2018 14:59:19 GMT
Giggs off on a jolly to watch Man u v Fulham Plenty of Welsh players on view there 😎 Maybe could of gone to a game involving Welsh players but no he is a Manc first and foremost, Wales just pay his wages. He really doesn't help himself the media will all ways put him in the wrong light so to speak. as there is no international for few months he has alot of time on his hands. i was surprised he wasn't at PP last week, few welsh playing there.
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Post by gwernybwch on Dec 6, 2018 19:38:10 GMT
Giggs off on a jolly to watch Man u v Fulham Plenty of Welsh players on view there 😎 Maybe could of gone to a game involving Welsh players but no he is a Manc first and foremost, Wales just pay his wages. He really doesn't help himself the media will all ways put him in the wrong light so to speak. as there is no international for few months he has alot of time on his hands. i was surprised he wasn't at PP last week, few welsh playing there.
"The Media" ? Not seen anybody in the media putting him in the wrong light over this. He has two part-time jobs; one as the Manager of the Welsh International Football team and the second as co-owner of a hotel and a football club around Manchester. This weekend he can go and watch many of the Welsh internationals playing in one game or he can do corporate entertainment at his hotel. He's chosen the hotel. Just like he choose to open a shopping centre in Hong Kong rather than watch or Nations League opponents. Just like he has chosen to watch Salford FC rather than get around Wales, watch a Welsh team in the Championship rather than meet the fans. Like welshiron says, he really doesn't help himself.
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Giggs
Dec 6, 2018 22:32:11 GMT
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Post by TheWelshWay on Dec 6, 2018 22:32:11 GMT
Like any manager i will judge him after 5/6 qualifiers. Feel some people have an agenda and will find any excuse to slag him. If he watched Matondo in the Checkatrade last night would he be ok?
Apparently Coleman and Speed trusted their team (osh, dutch ray, kit) to scout and give analysis in players - why is Giggs held to a different standard?
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Giggs
Dec 7, 2018 8:01:11 GMT
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Post by welshiron on Dec 7, 2018 8:01:11 GMT
He's not Coleman did get out to games and around the communities in Wales.
He will be judged on results but if we don't qualify for the Euros it will be a travesty.
Think we are in danger of wasting the last year's of Bale and Ramsey
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Post by welshiron on Dec 7, 2018 8:05:59 GMT
There were 2 main concerns when he took the job
1. Lack of experience
2. His commitment to Wales
Can't do anything about the first but he could of really thrown himself into the job to show he cares but time after time he leaves himself open for criticism.
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Giggs
Dec 7, 2018 8:15:31 GMT
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Post by TheWelshWay on Dec 7, 2018 8:15:31 GMT
Giggs has been going round Welsh clubs and communities (albeit not to the same extent as Cookie). Cookie was a class above when it came to being a Statesman for Welsh football- but lets not forget he got the WC qualifiers totally wrong and he’s the one who failed to get prime Bale and Rambo to a World Cup.
One thing i’ve leant reading Ex players and coaches books and podcasts is we have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. Players may love Giggs or they may hate him and that won’t show until we’re in the business end of the qualifiers.
Lets not pretend that going to Brentford matches and going to open a leisure centre will make or break our qualifiers or Giggs’ management career
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Giggs
Dec 7, 2018 8:48:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 8:48:46 GMT
Coleman was always a bit of a celebrity as a manager. I imagine he loved those stints in Spain and Greece for his tan! Six years or so was a long time in one job in football these days.
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Post by gwernybwch on Dec 7, 2018 8:49:14 GMT
Giggs has been going round Welsh clubs and communities (albeit not to the same extent as Cookie). Cookie was a class above when it came to being a Statesman for Welsh football- but lets not forget he got the WC qualifiers totally wrong and he’s the one who failed to get prime Bale and Rambo to a World Cup. One thing i’ve leant reading Ex players and coaches books and podcasts is we have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. Players may love Giggs or they may hate him and that won’t show until we’re in the business end of the qualifiers. Lets not pretend that going to Brentford matches and going to open a leisure centre will make or break our qualifiers or Giggs’ management career If you are a reader of coaching methods, the work of Dave Brailsford (team sky) is certainly worth a read. He talks about the one per cents is the difference between winning and losing. So yes, the difference between spending time watching your next opponents or understanding your players could well be difference between us winning or losing.
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Post by TheWelshWay on Dec 7, 2018 8:56:34 GMT
Giggs has been going round Welsh clubs and communities (albeit not to the same extent as Cookie). Cookie was a class above when it came to being a Statesman for Welsh football- but lets not forget he got the WC qualifiers totally wrong and he’s the one who failed to get prime Bale and Rambo to a World Cup. One thing i’ve leant reading Ex players and coaches books and podcasts is we have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. Players may love Giggs or they may hate him and that won’t show until we’re in the business end of the qualifiers. Lets not pretend that going to Brentford matches and going to open a leisure centre will make or break our qualifiers or Giggs’ management career If you are a reader of coaching methods, the work of Dave Brailsford (team sky) is certainly worth a read. He talks about the one per cents is the difference between winning and losing. So yes, the difference between spending time watching your next opponents or understanding your players could well be difference between us winning or losing. You’re making a assumption that he isn’t watching his next opponents and players - only thing we know is he does not place a great deal of importantance on physically attending matches. We know Osh and his team prepare videos and broken down analysis of players and opponents. He may prefer to use these. Cookie and Osh regularly Phoned each other whilst watching european matches (nothing to do with Wales) and talk about formation and style. Lets not question his approach when we have no idea what it is and we’re making guesses
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Dec 7, 2018 9:14:19 GMT
If you are a reader of coaching methods, the work of Dave Brailsford (team sky) is certainly worth a read. He talks about the one per cents is the difference between winning and losing. So yes, the difference between spending time watching your next opponents or understanding your players could well be difference between us winning or losing. You’re making a assumption that he isn’t watching his next opponents and players - only thing we know is he does not place a great deal of importantance on physically attending matches. We know Osh and his team prepare videos and broken down analysis of players and opponents. He may prefer to use these. Cookie and Osh regularly Phoned each other whilst watching european matches (nothing to do with Wales) and talk about formation and style. Lets not question his approach when we have no idea what it is and we’re making guesses Nothing you can say to the fans who just outright have a dislike of giggs. A bad start in qualifiers and then this type of critizm will come back out..
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 7, 2018 9:33:31 GMT
Lets not pretend that going to Brentford matches and going to open a leisure centre will make or break our qualifiers or Giggs’ management career I’d rather he was going to Brentford Swansea this weekend than Man Utd Fulham.
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Giggs
Dec 7, 2018 9:51:01 GMT
Post by TheWelshWay on Dec 7, 2018 9:51:01 GMT
Lets not pretend that going to Brentford matches and going to open a leisure centre will make or break our qualifiers or Giggs’ management career I’d rather he was going to Brentford Swansea this weekend than Man Utd Fulham. TBF I agree, Utd have been dire to watch this season and unless he's watching to see what not to do
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Giggs
Dec 7, 2018 9:56:16 GMT
Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 7, 2018 9:56:16 GMT
Hopefully he's at least watching our lads' games back.
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Post by iot on Dec 7, 2018 13:35:34 GMT
If you are a reader of coaching methods, the work of Dave Brailsford (team sky) is certainly worth a read. He talks about the one per cents is the difference between winning and losing. So yes, the difference between spending time watching your next opponents or understanding your players could well be difference between us winning or losing. You’re making a assumption that he isn’t watching his next opponents and players - only thing we know is he does not place a great deal of importantance on physically attending matches. We know Osh and his team prepare videos and broken down analysis of players and opponents. He may prefer to use these. Cookie and Osh regularly Phoned each other whilst watching european matches (nothing to do with Wales) and talk about formation and style. Lets not question his approach when we have no idea what it is and we’re making guesses It's not really making an assumption when Giggs himself said in two conferences around the last game that he wasn't aware of criticism around Bale's form at Madrid because he hadn't watched any of the Madrid games. I assumed he was just being flippant the first time he said it as a way to avoid answering the question. But after he said it the second time I'm really not sure. To not watch recent performances of our best player would be an absolute disgrace - it would mean that I'm monitoring things closer than he is!
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Post by alarch on Dec 7, 2018 14:43:40 GMT
The generous view of things is to say that it's not unambiguously clear that Giggs isn't doing the things behind the scenes that he might be. For all we know that may be true - but wouldn't you think that given the huge misgivings around his appointment in the first place that Giggs would go out of his way to prove his critics wrong? If he was turning up at football clubs up and down the country, and was regularly seen at Championship matches involving Welsh players then the vibe around him would be very different. The fact that there is negativity and cynicism around Giggs may have been unfair (albeit understandable) at the outset, but since his appointment Giggs really hasn't done himself any favours with his diffident, don't-give-a-shit profile.
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Giggs
Dec 7, 2018 16:12:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 16:12:11 GMT
Why would he apply for the job? He's clearly a multi millionaire already and has known business interests. He must want to do it otherwise he'd never have got involved.
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Giggs
Dec 7, 2018 16:33:46 GMT
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Post by TheWelshWay on Dec 7, 2018 16:33:46 GMT
The generous view of things is to say that it's not unambiguously clear that Giggs isn't doing the things behind the scenes that he might be. For all we know that may be true - but wouldn't you think that given the huge misgivings around his appointment in the first place that Giggs would go out of his way to prove his critics wrong? If he was turning up at football clubs up and down the country, and was regularly seen at Championship matches involving Welsh players then the vibe around him would be very different. The fact that there is negativity and cynicism around Giggs may have been unfair (albeit understandable) at the outset, but since his appointment Giggs really hasn't done himself any favours with his diffident, don't-give-a-shit profile. Whilst i think that would have been Coleman’s approach, just not Giggs style. What do we know about Giggs : he is very historically reserved in front of the Media but known to be a totally different person when the cameras are off. Stories of him engaging with fans and open to discuss Welsh footabll. He will prefer to do his talking on the pitch and willing to live and die based on those results rather than try to be a media darling (for better or for worse). I think its unfair to say he’s done nothing in terms of visiting clubs, youth teams ect as a quick search of dragonsoccer would reveal he doesn’t have a doesn’t give shit attitude. No, he does do it not asmuch as Coleman (no idea about Speed and Hughes as it was not something we’d concentrate on) I think some fans will never take to him. Personally, I don’t care what he does between now and march as long as he’s scouted the opposition, knows his team and shape by the qualifiers. He will never have all of Coleman’s traits and we should stop judging him on them.
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Post by alarch on Dec 7, 2018 18:06:48 GMT
My comment about not giving a shit is more to do with his media profile than his underlying attitude - which would be pure conjecture. There may be something to be said for not caring what the Welsh public think of him - but it's a dangerous game to play. It's not as if it would take that much - it's not unreasonable to expect him to turn up to watch Welsh players play on a more regular basis. At the moment he gives the impression of being above it all. That may be at least partly down to his personality, but being seen to be doing some leg-work for the Welsh cause would go a long way towards changing attitudes. It's worth recalling that Coleman's profile wasn't that great when he started out as Welsh manager. It's only later on that he became more engaged with the supporters at large. I can distinctly remember him looking utterly bored at a Welsh Cup final early doors.
As you allude to, the bottom line is success on the pitch. If he sorts out his tactics and the results flow no one will give a shit about how engaged he is with the Welsh public. The success of the Together Stronger stuff, beyond the marketing hype, was that Coleman and the squad succeeded in creating a genuine synergy with the Welsh footballing support. That's conspicuously absent at the moment.
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Post by marsvolta on Dec 7, 2018 18:07:54 GMT
Why do I get the feeling that we’ll be having this conversation whenever Giggs does anything, inside or outside the football world, other than watch a match involving Welsh players between now and the next game in March
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Post by biwmares on Dec 7, 2018 18:51:51 GMT
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Giggs
Dec 7, 2018 21:49:23 GMT
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Post by chislenko on Dec 7, 2018 21:49:23 GMT
Needs a good bumming!!
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Giggs
Dec 8, 2018 17:28:26 GMT
Post by iantov on Dec 8, 2018 17:28:26 GMT
Plough on Chis.....(literally...!! )
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Giggs
Dec 9, 2018 18:24:08 GMT
Post by pendragon on Dec 9, 2018 18:24:08 GMT
I was in Anglesey on the same day. I was tempted to drive there with my "Giggs out" ("Down with that sort of thing") placard. Only joking of course This would have been a fairly low profile stint, hopefully he'll be doing more of this sort of thing to connect with supporters.
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Giggs
Dec 9, 2018 18:31:56 GMT
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Dec 9, 2018 18:31:56 GMT
I would say the every day of the mill supporters he is connected with due to his prolific footballing career ... it's the hardened Welsh football fan who can not forgive the past.
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Giggs
Dec 9, 2018 18:48:00 GMT
Post by pendragon on Dec 9, 2018 18:48:00 GMT
Hopefully he can start by getting us to another Euro or World Cup semi-final then... 👍
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Giggs
Dec 9, 2018 19:34:48 GMT
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Dec 9, 2018 19:34:48 GMT
Hopefully he can start by getting us to another Euro or World Cup semi-final then... 👍 Do you think any manager be able to equal that summer. We live in hope and always want to believe we can. It's going to be tough getting out the group.. doable yes but not easy
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Post by conwy10 on Dec 9, 2018 20:02:58 GMT
Hopefully he can start by getting us to another Euro or World Cup semi-final then... 👍 Do you think any manager be able to equal that summer. We live in hope and always want to believe we can. It's going to be tough getting out the group.. doable yes but not easy The expectation now should be to qualify. Once we’re there it’s just about the occasion, the dreams come true for me. I’d be happy qualifying and going out in the group stage as long as we have a good account of ourselves
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