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Giggs
Jun 10, 2019 18:56:13 GMT
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Jun 10, 2019 18:56:13 GMT
In Giggs we trust.
Fans need to start giving him and the players some backing instead of having an agenda against him all the time.
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Giggs
Jun 10, 2019 19:12:52 GMT
Post by gwernybwch on Jun 10, 2019 19:12:52 GMT
If we were to lose in Hungary I would want him out. Might be harsh but it would give a new manager a chance still to qualify. If we lose to Hungary, it isn't going to happen. Simple as. The media types will circle the wagons around him, Wales articles about him (even if he is doing badly) get way more click bait, readers, listeners than any other previous or potential Manager. After all he is the go to guy if anybody needs a Man U soundbite. I'm not sure that the FAW can afford to pay him and the rest of his team off anyway. Footballing decisions like a new manager might have enough time to ensure that we qualify won't even enter into the equation. We are all on the good ship Giggsy, for better or for worse, until the end of this qualifying campaign. Anyway, at the start of the campaign did you really think that we would actually get something out of the away games in Croatia and (a reinvigorated) Hungary? There is plenty of football to be played. Not a time to make rash decisions.
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Giggs
Jun 10, 2019 19:52:40 GMT
Post by insertname on Jun 10, 2019 19:52:40 GMT
Who would his replacement be? There aren't any stand out Welsh managers in good form at the moment apart from maybe Nathan Jones but I doubt he would be interested so early in his career.
Knowing how the FAW are notorious for not sacking managers Giggs will remain until the start of the next campaign at the earliest no matter how it pans out. Personally I would give him til the end of the campaign if only because of lack of quality candidates and if we somehow fluke a spot in the play offs then I would be keen on someone else taking charge of our last chance to qualify.
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Post by majorraglan on Jun 10, 2019 20:58:30 GMT
Who would his replacement be? There aren't any stand out Welsh managers in good form at the moment apart from maybe Nathan Jones but I doubt he would be interested so early in his career. Knowing how the FAW are notorious for not sacking managers Giggs will remain until the start of the next campaign at the earliest no matter how it pans out. Personally I would give him til the end of the campaign if only because of lack of quality candidates and if we somehow fluke a spot in the play offs then I would be keen on someone else taking charge of our last chance to qualify. I am really passionate about my country and the team, but I can’t see why the manager has to be Welsh. My take is we should always go for the best person out there regardless of nationality. Rather have someone who knows their onions than someone who will waste the next generation.
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Giggs
Jun 10, 2019 22:12:15 GMT
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Post by insertname on Jun 10, 2019 22:12:15 GMT
Who would his replacement be? There aren't any stand out Welsh managers in good form at the moment apart from maybe Nathan Jones but I doubt he would be interested so early in his career. Knowing how the FAW are notorious for not sacking managers Giggs will remain until the start of the next campaign at the earliest no matter how it pans out. Personally I would give him til the end of the campaign if only because of lack of quality candidates and if we somehow fluke a spot in the play offs then I would be keen on someone else taking charge of our last chance to qualify. I am really passionate about my country and the team, but I can’t see why the manager has to be Welsh. My take is we should always go for the best person out there regardless of nationality. Rather have someone who knows their onions than someone who will waste the next generation. When was the last time they appointed a non-Welsh manager? To my mind it’s only been Gould in recent times. They would overlook Pep Guardiola for Pulis, so I think it’s totally justified to only think in terms of Welsh managers.
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Deleted
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Giggs
Jun 11, 2019 10:20:52 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2019 10:20:52 GMT
Trouble with giggs is that he's a novice manager and that means he is still learning,trouble with that is he's making his mistakes in our qualifying campaign!! Lose to hungary and the group is done for us I think:(.
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Giggs
Jun 11, 2019 11:26:05 GMT
Post by massivefloodlights on Jun 11, 2019 11:26:05 GMT
Anyone know how much say Osian has in all this?
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Giggs
Jun 11, 2019 11:44:39 GMT
Post by dai on Jun 11, 2019 11:44:39 GMT
Anyone know how much say Osian has in all this? Judging by how miserable he looks on the bench these days, not a lot.
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Post by kingstonred on Jun 11, 2019 11:57:54 GMT
Trouble with giggs is that he's a novice manager and that means he is still learning,trouble with that is he's making his mistakes in our qualifying campaign!! Lose to hungary and the group is done for us I think:(. The attitude on the forum at the moment is a bit dour. We've just lost 2-1 away to the World Cup Finalists. Even if we lost tonight (which I don't think we will) it is still no disgrace, seeing as they beat Croatia 2 months ago! If we beat Azerbaijan home and away, point at home to Croatia, point away to Slovakia, point away to Hungary and beat Hungagry at home, we'll be on 15 points - which is what everyone says you need to qualify!
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Giggs
Jun 11, 2019 12:02:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by cymro on Jun 11, 2019 12:02:27 GMT
Trouble with giggs is that he's a novice manager and that means he is still learning,trouble with that is he's making his mistakes in our qualifying campaign!! Lose to hungary and the group is done for us I think:(. The attitude on the forum at the moment is a bit dour. We've just lost 2-1 away to the World Cup Finalists. Even if we lost tonight (which I don't think we will) it is still no disgrace, seeing as they beat Croatia 2 months ago! If we beat Azerbaijan home and away, point at home to Croatia, point away to Slovakia, point away to Hungary and beat Hungagry at home, we'll be on 15 points - which is what everyone says you need to qualify! Totally agree. 4 wins and 3 draws is what we need. A draw tonight and we are fully on track, with 3 home games to come, and 2 of the 3 tough away games out the way. I'm still not convinced on Giggs by any means, but I'm reserving full judgement until October!
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Giggs
Jun 11, 2019 12:11:00 GMT
Post by richierich333 on Jun 11, 2019 12:11:00 GMT
Trouble with giggs is that he's a novice manager and that means he is still learning,trouble with that is he's making his mistakes in our qualifying campaign!! Lose to hungary and the group is done for us I think:(. For me this is a must win game I agree. I will not be happy with a draw at all. This really is fine margins stuff: a scrappy 1-0 win and we're looking good for 2nd spot, or a loss and we're playing catch up like we were after 3 games in the 'dark ages'.
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Giggs
Jun 11, 2019 21:23:11 GMT
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 11, 2019 21:23:11 GMT
Giggs out!!!!!!!!!
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Giggs
Jun 11, 2019 21:24:15 GMT
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 11, 2019 21:24:15 GMT
Get rid now. He’s out of his depth.
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Giggs
Jun 11, 2019 21:53:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by richierich333 on Jun 11, 2019 21:53:27 GMT
You have made a mockery of the thread
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Post by robin1864 on Jun 11, 2019 23:31:08 GMT
You have made a mockery of the thread He's not wrong though, Giggs doesn't have a clue. He's picking different teams for every game and it just smacks of desperation, hoping that starting player x this time will have a positive effect, rather than having a team that's tactically adept.
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Giggs
Jun 12, 2019 2:28:37 GMT
Post by wirralwelsh on Jun 12, 2019 2:28:37 GMT
Everybody was saying exactly the same stuff about Coleman this time in his rain, including at the start of the last Euro qualifying campaign and that didn't all turn out too bad did it?
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Post by conwy10 on Jun 12, 2019 3:10:40 GMT
Everybody was saying exactly the same stuff about Coleman this time in his rain, including at the start of the last Euro qualifying campaign and that didn't all turn out too bad did it? Ok that’s fine, let’s all get behind Giggs! Coleman broke the ceiling and showed it was possible. The next campaign he only lost 1 match and all the way through the campaign we were only losing a match for 30 minutes all campaign was it? Which cost us dearly. He was negative but we played with pride, desire. We’ve lost more in 3 qualifying matches under Giggs than the previous 2 campaigns under Coleman. We’ve had Brooks, James and Mepham become Premier League players. Everything is going right for Giggs except his own talent.
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Post by quetzal on Jun 12, 2019 3:18:33 GMT
Giggs is a PISSHEAD CLOWN!!!! Get him out!!!
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Post by CrackityJones on Jun 12, 2019 5:37:28 GMT
Will all those who slated him before a ball was kicked, and continud to do so after a load of meaningless games be apologising in person or in writing this time next week? Bump
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Giggs
Jun 12, 2019 9:37:18 GMT
Post by massivefloodlights on Jun 12, 2019 9:37:18 GMT
Missing out on Russia ‘18 seems a lifetime ago.
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Giggs
Jun 12, 2019 9:48:23 GMT
Post by kingstonred on Jun 12, 2019 9:48:23 GMT
Cookie had loads of Premier League regulars to call on. Hennessey Williams Chester Davies Taylor Allen Ledley Ramsey Bale!!
The only 2 premier league regulars now are Mepham and Brooks who are only 21! Wilson, Lawrence, James, Williams and Gunter in the Championship, Hennessey, Davies and Ampadu not getting games in the Prem. Obviously Bale not getting a game either.
Anyone saying that this is the 'Golden Generation' is right... but we need to give these players time to develop, they're nowhere near their peak yet, and our team last night was full of players that can't get in their club teams, or exciting youngsters that lack experience.
Toshack never got the credit for bringing through the kids that Cookie took to the Euro Semis in their prime at the time. Maybe Giggs will get some credit when Roberts, Brooks, Mepham, James and Matondo win us the World Cup in 2026...
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Post by 1gwaunview on Jun 12, 2019 10:35:40 GMT
Together Stronger - Lovely memory. Red Wall - Soon to be random loose bricks if things don't improve soon.
It seems a millennia since Euro 2016, we were so close to WC2018 qualification, now we're miles away.
Coleman had a very difficult job taking over after Gary Speed's untimely death. Giggs has all the positives earned over the last few years, and now it all seems to be falling away quickly.
Very sad.
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Post by insertname on Jun 12, 2019 11:11:10 GMT
It annoys me that we need schemes like 'Together Stronger' in the first place - our players should run through walls for their country whatever, Northern Ireland don't need fancy marketing slogans to get their players to put a good effort in for a campaign do they?
That being said the thing that bothers me most about Giggs is that he is so passive as a character, very wishy-washy personality, you wonder how he inspires the players, if he does at all. It's natural to make mistakes but there is nothing about his demeanour that suggests our current performance is not good enough and he is determined to turn it round.
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Post by alarch on Jun 12, 2019 11:12:50 GMT
I didn't post last night because I would have said something I regretted. As it is I barely feel any better this morning. The most depressing thought of all is that Giggs is on a 4 year contract - meaning our chances not only in this campaign, but also the next, are pretty much fycked as far as I can see. There is no way he would show the integrity and resign, and there's no way the FAW will sack him, regardless of how poorly we perform, for financial reasons as much as any.
I really can't see us do anything under Giggs. Yes, we may win the odd game, perhaps occasionally performing well, as we did against ROI, when we are able to put out our strongest, fully fit eleven. But over a qualification campaign we will fall short because I see nothing to suggest that Giggs has a clue what he's doing. There is no coherent idea or philosophy that I can discern. There is definitely no ambition to play a short-passing possession game (we have had the minority of possession in all three qualification games to date). Starting Vaulks against Croatia and having him on the bench against Hungary after a dismal display against Croatia says all you need to know about Giggs' ambitions when it comes to playing possession football.
It's not as if Giggs had the ambition to play a typical British long-ball game either. If he had that aim then there would be some sign that we practised our set-piece play - which I couldn't discern at all.
Over the double header I struggle to recall more than a few passing moves in the opposition half involving several passes. Not surprising given that our movement was poor and our passes too long to hope to sustain control and build any sort of pressure or momentum. It was the same in the games against Denmark.
Our only chance of success under Giggs depends on us miraculously having Allen, Bale, Ramsey, Brooks, Ampadu and James fully fit and firing in the majority of the games. Realistically, I can't see that happen, and we need that to happen so that we have enough quality on the pitch to win games in spite of the incompetence of the manager.
In some ways I feel more depressed about our prospects than under Bobby Gould - because at least there was a realistic prospect, eventually realised, of him being sacked. As it is I think Giggs will ruin the prospects of the strongest squad of players in Welsh footballing history. What a desperately depressing thought.
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Giggs
Jun 12, 2019 11:46:06 GMT
Post by zenith on Jun 12, 2019 11:46:06 GMT
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Post by nwcherries on Jun 12, 2019 11:51:01 GMT
There is no coherent idea or philosophy that I can discern. Yeah this is probably your biggest problem, and it's obviously compounded with the constant chopping and changing. I don't think Giggs is a horrific manager or anything, but there are lots of things going against you at the moment that are kind of stacking up. Players like Ramsey, Brooks and Ampadu are either injured or not quite fit enough to play well, you have the Bale situation and you have a novice manager who's clearly still learning on the job. If even one of these problems were solved the situation would probably not look as bleak as it does; Bale has shown in the past that he can individually pull results out of his arse, and with all your best players available there's not a chance in hell you lose to Hungary IMO, even with Giggs in charge. In terms of your philosophy, I think you lot should be trying to play fast, counterattacking football. You have ball winners like Allen and Ampadu, engines like Ramsey and sheer pace and creativity in the likes of Bale, James and Brooks. You don't have the players for this tikki takka nonsense, you should be playing to your strengths. --------------Hennessey-------------- Roberts--Mepham--Williams--Davies ---------Ampadu---------Allen--------- Brooks---------Ramsey---------James ------------------Bale------------------
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Post by pendragon on Jun 12, 2019 11:58:19 GMT
Has Giggs given a post-match conference? I haven't been able to bring myself to look at any post-match reviews etc but I wonder whether he's provided any insight from his point of view. I do wonder whether many of our players were battling with fitness problems.
When I saw him give an interview before the game, it had me worried. He seemed stressed and flustered. If this was the case, then it came across in our team's display.
If he's going to stay, he needs to reflect long and hard over the summer, perhaps bring in some additional coaching from someone who knows what they are doing.
If changes are required, now is the time to make them.
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Giggs
Jun 12, 2019 11:59:27 GMT
Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 12, 2019 11:59:27 GMT
There is no coherent idea or philosophy that I can discern. Yeah this is probably your biggest problem, and it's obviously compounded with the constant chopping and changing. I don't think Giggs is a horrific manager or anything, but there are lots of things going against you at the moment that are kind of stacking up. Players like Ramsey, Brooks and Ampadu are either injured or not quite fit enough to play well, you have the Bale situation and you have a novice manager who's clearly still learning on the job. If even one of these problems were solved the situation would probably not look as bleak as it does; Bale has shown in the past that he can individually pull results out of his arse, and with all your best players available there's not a chance in hell you lose to Hungary IMO, even with Giggs in charge. In terms of your philosophy, I think you lot should be trying to play fast, counterattacking football. You have ball winners like Allen and Ampadu, engines like Ramsey and sheer pace and creativity in the likes of Bale, James and Brooks. You don't have the players for this tikki takka nonsense, you should be playing to your strengths. --------------Hennessey-------------- Roberts--Mepham--Williams--Davies ---------Ampadu---------Allen--------- Brooks---------Ramsey---------James ------------------Bale------------------That is 100% our best team, and I think if we had fielded that team in both games we would have had at least 3 points. Problem is in the first game we started with 4 of them missing, and in the second game we started with 3 of them missing, meaning 25% of our first choice team were missing from both fixtures.
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Post by caeboy on Jun 12, 2019 12:04:59 GMT
Yeah this is probably your biggest problem, and it's obviously compounded with the constant chopping and changing. I don't think Giggs is a horrific manager or anything, but there are lots of things going against you at the moment that are kind of stacking up. Players like Ramsey, Brooks and Ampadu are either injured or not quite fit enough to play well, you have the Bale situation and you have a novice manager who's clearly still learning on the job. If even one of these problems were solved the situation would probably not look as bleak as it does; Bale has shown in the past that he can individually pull results out of his arse, and with all your best players available there's not a chance in hell you lose to Hungary IMO, even with Giggs in charge. In terms of your philosophy, I think you lot should be trying to play fast, counterattacking football. You have ball winners like Allen and Ampadu, engines like Ramsey and sheer pace and creativity in the likes of Bale, James and Brooks. You don't have the players for this tikki takka nonsense, you should be playing to your strengths. --------------Hennessey-------------- Roberts--Mepham--Williams--Davies ---------Ampadu---------Allen--------- Brooks---------Ramsey---------James ------------------Bale------------------That is 100% our best team, and I think if we had fielded that team in both games we would have had at least 3 points. Problem is in the first game we started with 4 of them missing, and in the second game we started with 3 of them missing, meaning 25% of our first choice team were missing from both fixtures. Absolutely our best team. If Chester can get back to full fitness he'll challenge though
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Giggs
Jun 12, 2019 12:08:40 GMT
Post by alarch on Jun 12, 2019 12:08:40 GMT
There is no coherent idea or philosophy that I can discern. Yeah this is probably your biggest problem, and it's obviously compounded with the constant chopping and changing. I don't think Giggs is a horrific manager or anything, but there are lots of things going against you at the moment that are kind of stacking up. Players like Ramsey, Brooks and Ampadu are either injured or not quite fit enough to play well, you have the Bale situation and you have a novice manager who's clearly still learning on the job. If even one of these problems were solved the situation would probably not look as bleak as it does; Bale has shown in the past that he can individually pull results out of his arse, and with all your best players available there's not a chance in hell you lose to Hungary IMO, even with Giggs in charge. In terms of your philosophy, I think you lot should be trying to play fast, counterattacking football. You have ball winners like Allen and Ampadu, engines like Ramsey and sheer pace and creativity in the likes of Bale, James and Brooks. You don't have the players for this tikki takka nonsense, you should be playing to your strengths. --------------Hennessey-------------- Roberts--Mepham--Williams--Davies ---------Ampadu---------Allen--------- Brooks---------Ramsey---------James ------------------Bale------------------ I agreed with the first bit of your post but profoundly disagree with the latter. Of course we have the quality to play a possession-based, short passing game. Tiki taka is an extreme manifestation of that approach, there are other ways of implementing a possession-based, short-passing game than that exemplified by Barcelona under Guardiola. Not even Guardiola's City play that way any more - but there is still very much an emphasis on retaining possession and building through the thirds, albeit with greater intensity and "verticality" than under Guardiola's Barca. Potter showed this season with Swansea how it's possible to play a possession-based, short-passing game with meagre resources. It should be so much easier for Wales with Joe Allen, Ramsey, Brooks, Ampadu, Smith and Jonny Williams at our disposal. By all accounts Swansea are about to appoint Cooper, from Pontypridd, as manager. A huge risk for sure, but the right sort of risk, given his coaching pedigree. Wales could have appointed him - but instead we went for a big name with no track record in coaching or management, with no discernible philosophy. A completely wrong-headed approach. We should identify a style of play and recruit to that style, even if it means taking a punt on a complete unknown, up-and-coming coach. Oh, well, we only have to wait another three years, before we fail to take that approach again.
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