Giggs

[toshfan]

Was he on the money in Serbia?

Nothing was on the money about that performance but you questioned whether he was tactically astute in a general sense. Possibly the only good thing about the outcome of the Serbia game was that Coleman decided to do things his way since.
I remember Kevin Ratcliffe putting the question, after the Serbia game, whether Ramsey needed to be rested for Wales games. Against Scotland, he and Joniesta were our best players. Since Serbia, things have looked much much better.

Why have we got no chance of qualifying with 4 games to go?

Because Belgium are one of the best teams in the world at the moment. Because Croatia are an excellent side also. Because it is a typically tough group for us. Because of an unacceptable performance out in Serbia etc.

When you say 'he has a similar sense of ethics as Toshack' what exactly do you mean?

Those old fashioned core values of pride in the shirt. Moving heaven and earth to play for your country. Courtesy. A way of doing things (and not e.g. Paul Parry's retirement) etc.

We need the crowds and interest re-kindled. I am sure that in front of a large passionate crowd at home to Croatia we would have hung on for at least a draw- and possibly the win.

Of course, crowds and passionate supporters are beneficial. I do not think that the indifference of too many of my fellow Swansea supporter for that massive game against Croatia can be blamed on Chris Coleman. Furthermore, I do not think this measurement necessarily aligns to whether the manager is doing the right thing and a good job. The crowds were not great under Toshack yet he was the finest Welsh manager in my lifetime in terms of the turnaround of Welsh Football.

I heard on the radio this morning, Jonathan Ford saying he was in discussions with Coleman over a new contract and these were progressing well but that we also have important qualifiers approaching. Read into that what you will.

I read it as an effective way of acknowledging speculation whilst discussions continue.

Here is the link to the article: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23762706

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2013 20:44:48 GMT rushlegend said:

Having Giggs as manager could even tempt Bellamy to stay for another campaign

I'm in the middle with this to be honest, there are pluses and minuses with him being in charge, i'm sure he would defo get the respect from the players no doubt about that even though he himself didn't commit as well as everyone here says as a player for Wales.

I agree with this.

[toshfan]

Aug 20, 2013 11:53:52 GMT @cadnollanboidy said:

Aug 19, 2013 20:44:48 GMT rushlegend said:

Having Giggs as manager could even tempt Bellamy to stay for another campaign

I'm in the middle with this to be honest, there are pluses and minuses with him being in charge, i'm sure he would defo get the respect from the players no doubt about that even though he himself didn't commit as well as everyone here says as a player for Wales.

I agree with this.

The best that we can hope for with Bellamy is one more round of qualifiers, whether Coleman, Giggsy or anyone else is our manager. In view of that, I do think the Bellamy factor alone is worthy of determining our manager.

The thought of risking the pre-Toshack years again makes me worry about Welsh Football. I hope that it does not happen. As a Coleman fan, I will objectively make the point that the next couple of u21 games are crucial and more should have been said/asked about the recent 1-5 loss to Finland.

[Deleted]

Aug 20, 2013 11:44:28 GMT toshfan said:

Was he on the money in Serbia?

Nothing was on the money about that performance but you questioned whether he was tactically astute in a general sense. Possibly the only good thing about the outcome of the Serbia game was that Coleman decided to do things his way since.
I remember Kevin Ratcliffe putting the question, after the Serbia game, whether Ramsey needed to be rested for Wales games. Against Scotland, he and Joniesta were our best players. Since Serbia, things have looked much much better.

You are judged on results - there are only 10 games in the group to get it right. We lost 6-1 against a side that has not won any other game....and resting Ramsey for a qualifier is a fucking joke.

Why have we got no chance of qualifying with 4 games to go?

Because Belgium are one of the best teams in the world at the moment. Because Croatia are an excellent side also. Because it is a typically tough group for us. Because of an unacceptable performance out in Serbia etc.

So you are happy to accept mediocrity ad infininitum?

When you say 'he has a similar sense of ethics as Toshack' what exactly do you mean?

Those old fashioned core values of pride in the shirt. Moving heaven and earth to play for your country. Courtesy. A way of doing things (and not e.g. Paul Parry's retirement) etc.

Is that why there were 16 withdrawels in Toshack's last friendly away to Croatia?

We need the crowds and interest re-kindled. I am sure that in front of a large passionate crowd at home to Croatia we would have hung on for at least a draw- and possibly the win.

Of course, crowds and passionate supporters are beneficial. I do not think that the indifference of too many of my fellow Swansea supporter for that massive game against Croatia can be blamed on Chris Coleman. Furthermore, I do not think this measurement necessarily aligns to whether the manager is doing the right thing and a good job. The crowds were not great under Toshack yet he was the finest Welsh manager in my lifetime in terms of the turnaround of Welsh Football.

So whose fault is it for a shit turnout?

I heard on the radio this morning, Jonathan Ford saying he was in discussions with Coleman over a new contract and these were progressing well but that we also have important qualifiers approaching. Read into that what you will.

I read it as an effective way of acknowledging speculation whilst discussions continue.

Here is the link to the article: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23762706

[Deleted]

To bring some balance to the argument about Serbia - whilst they are not in great form at the moment their home record (especially in WC qualifiers) is imperious, so its not an easy place to go where you just turn up and win. The whole team was a disgrace that night and looked like they were trying to get Coleman the sack.

I think its too early to give Coleman a new contract, the situation should be reviewed at the end of the campaign. It has to be said that he has faced his hardest fixtures (bar Belgium away) first so that is why I am not unduly concerned that we are out of qualifying. Although it was a surprise that Croatia and Belgium have run away with it and not dropped the points we thought at the start it just goes to show what a tough group it really was. Nowt that Coleman can do about that.

So we are now in the period when the deck should be stacked in our favour (to use a card counting analogy). We should be getting wins from Macedonia and Serbia at home and at least a draw with Macedonia away, finishing 3rd overall. For me, this period has always been the make or break time for Coleman (coupled with wins against Scotland which he achieved) so I shall reserve judgement until the campaign is finished.

EDIT: Although I think Giggs recent announcement means that Coleman is purely a stop gap. He will be dropped for Giggs by the start of the next qualifiers imo. And Giggs will in turn drop us for a Prem job as soon as he strings two wins together, even quicker than Hughes did.

[Deleted]

Aug 20, 2013 12:58:56 GMT @storm said:

To bring some balance to the argument about Serbia - whilst they are not in great form at the moment their home record (especially in WC qualifiers) is imperious, so its not an easy place to go where you just turn up and win. The whole team was a disgrace that night and looked like they were trying to get Coleman the sack.

I think its too early to give Coleman a new contract, the situation should be reviewed at the end of the campaign. It has to be said that he has faced his hardest fixtures (bar Belgium away) first so that is why I am not unduly concerned that we are out of qualifying. Although it was a surprise that Croatia and Belgium have run away with it and not dropped the points we thought at the start it just goes to show what a tough group it really was. Nowt that Coleman can do about that.

So we are now in the period when the deck should be stacked in our favour (to use a card counting analogy). We should be getting wins from Macedonia and Serbia at home and at least a draw with Macedonia away, finishing 3rd overall. For me, this period has always been the make or break time for Coleman (coupled with wins against Scotland which he achieved) so I shall reserve judgement until the campaign is finished.

EDIT: Although I think Giggs recent announcement means that Coleman is purely a stop gap. He will be dropped for Giggs by the start of the next qualifiers imo. And Giggs will in turn drop us for a Prem job as soon as he strings two wins together, even quicker than Hughes did.

Good post Storm!. Wow did I really say that?

I think Giggs would be around longer than two games - Moyes has a 6 year contract (ok unless he hits the ground running it will be shorter than that) and Giggs needs to prove himself at managerial level.He won't want to manage any other club. United is what he know inside and out.

I reckon we would have him for 1-2 campaigns if he was up to the job, then take over from Moyes - although as we all know, anything can happen in between. Giggs may be a bit of a muppett but when it comes to football he is on exalted ground worldwide. He is not stupid either - you can't achieve what he has achieved in football by being dumb. He knows the Euros are expanded to 24 teams. He knows that Bale Ramsey et al will be peaking.

[toshfan]

"You are judged on results - there are only 10 games in the group to get it right."

Other than the game out in Serbia, where can we blame Chris Coleman?

"We lost 6-1 against a side that has not won any other game....and resting Ramsey for a qualifier is a joke."

You have missed the point I was trying to make. Such was the concern about Ramsey's performances against Belgium and Serbia that a respected pundit like Ratcliffe suggested he needed a rest for the benefit of the team. Neither Coleman or I advocated this ourselves but my point was that this did not happen and he was superb against Scotland.

"So you are happy to accept mediocrity ad infininitum?"

The above was not the case against Austria or Scotland away. I want the Welsh team to be the best it can be. Never again must there be the sole focus of the Senior team that we saw pre-Toshack as that ultimately left us in a terrible mess that only the calibre of John Toshack could repair.

"Is that why there were 16 withdrawels in Toshack's last friendly away to Croatia?"

Same as the retirements, none of these can be attributed to John Toshack.

"So whose fault is it for a shit turnout?"

Ultimately the great Welsh public. But I do accept that more could be done to market games. what do you think? This is an exchange about Chris Coleman so do you blame him? If so, how?

I too like Storm's post. I do, however, think that lots are underestimating what a very good side that Macedonia are. Getting 4 points from those two games would be a massive achievement.

[Deleted]

Aug 20, 2013 12:58:56 GMT @storm said:

To bring some balance to the argument about Serbia - whilst they are not in great form at the moment their home record (especially in WC qualifiers) is imperious, so its not an easy place to go where you just turn up and win. The whole team was a disgrace that night and looked like they were trying to get Coleman the sack.

I think its too early to give Coleman a new contract, the situation should be reviewed at the end of the campaign. It has to be said that he has faced his hardest fixtures (bar Belgium away) first so that is why I am not unduly concerned that we are out of qualifying. Although it was a surprise that Croatia and Belgium have run away with it and not dropped the points we thought at the start it just goes to show what a tough group it really was. Nowt that Coleman can do about that.

So we are now in the period when the deck should be stacked in our favour (to use a card counting analogy). We should be getting wins from Macedonia and Serbia at home and at least a draw with Macedonia away, finishing 3rd overall. For me, this period has always been the make or break time for Coleman (coupled with wins against Scotland which he achieved) so I shall reserve judgement until the campaign is finished.

EDIT: Although I think Giggs recent announcement means that Coleman is purely a stop gap. He will be dropped for Giggs by the start of the next qualifiers imo. And Giggs will in turn drop us for a Prem job as soon as he strings two wins together, even quicker than Hughes did.

Agreed.

[treharne]

ok I WILL ask it !......So who would manage Wales for the friendlies. ?? !

Seriously, just because Giggs won loads of trophies in a successful team, does not mean he could manage or coach anything successfully.

I am guessing he would only have the Wales manage part time anyway, coupled with his lucrative Man Utd job.....so who would manage Wales for the friendlies ?

[toshfan]

Aug 21, 2013 13:57:34 GMT treharne said:

ok I WILL ask it !......So who would manage Wales for the friendlies. ?? !

Seriously, just because Giggs won loads of trophies in a successful team, does not mean he could manage or coach anything successfully.

I am guessing he would only have the Wales manage part time anyway, coupled with his lucrative Man Utd job.....so who would manage Wales for the friendlies ?

I think that the 'friendly' question is a bit moot as he is less likely to pick up an injury on the sidelines.

But there is something in your second and third paragraphs. Part-Time no way. And, even more so, we are not going back to the pre-Toshack era.

[yanto]

This is a non issue - cookie deserves to get the job based on improvement in performances as the results have been patchy but definite upward curve. Giggs would do a hughesey without any question and would be as naïve as hughes got - so not much to be gained there. Cookie is a true Welshman says the job is the ultimate - gigs would never say that. the Croatia game at Swansea failed because we had no midfield replacements - as evidenced in the second half when our legs needed a fresh up. I would rather not go to Swansea for games as their is a general apathy - still not sure why? Lets get behind cookie and end all this inhouse fighting.

[Baxter Cymru]

Aug 24, 2013 11:38:07 GMT yanto said:

This is a non issue - cookie deserves to get the job based on improvement in performances as the results have been patchy but definite upward curve. Giggs would do a hughesey without any question and would be as naïve as hughes got - so not much to be gained there. Cookie is a true Welshman says the job is the ultimate - gigs would never say that. the Croatia game at Swansea failed because we had no midfield replacements - as evidenced in the second half when our legs needed a fresh up. I would rather not go to Swansea for games as their is a general apathy - still not sure why? Lets get behind cookie and end all this inhouse fighting.

Spot on!!!!!!

[dayoo87]

Aug 24, 2013 12:14:23 GMT Baxter Cymru said:

Aug 24, 2013 11:38:07 GMT yanto said:

This is a non issue - cookie deserves to get the job based on improvement in performances as the results have been patchy but definite upward curve. Giggs would do a hughesey without any question and would be as naïve as hughes got - so not much to be gained there. Cookie is a true Welshman says the job is the ultimate - gigs would never say that. the Croatia game at Swansea failed because we had no midfield replacements - as evidenced in the second half when our legs needed a fresh up. I would rather not go to Swansea for games as their is a general apathy - still not sure why? Lets get behind cookie and end all this inhouse fighting.

Spot on!!!!!!

Very True

[Deleted]

Looks like Louis van Gaal will be appointed and will be bringing his team in.

Giggs says he may look to manage somewhere else.

The Wales job for the next campaign would have been perfect for Giggs - couple of years - nothing to lose and everything to gain - with Bale, Ramsey and an emerging group of high quality young players with a smattering of experience in a weak group.

Then he could have fucked us off for the Man Utd job when it suited him. Let's hope Cookie gets off to a flyer.

[Deleted]

Yep, I hope he realises how short sighted his endless pursuit of new one year deals was. He could have been in a position to take over as Man U boss now with some experience under his belt managing Wales.

I don't want him anywhere near the national team. We have never been a priority to him, yet I bet he will be all over the FAW like a cheap suit now haggling to get his first managerial job at a decent level rather than having to work his way up from the Conference.

[Tim P]

May 2, 2014 12:41:17 GMT @baresi said:

Looks like Louis van Gaal will be appointed and will be bringing his team in.

Giggs says he may look to manage somewhere else.

Link?

[Deleted]

May 2, 2014 13:46:16 GMT Tim P said:

May 2, 2014 12:41:17 GMT @baresi said:

Looks like Louis van Gaal will be appointed and will be bringing his team in.

Giggs says he may look to manage somewhere else.

Link?

www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/02/ryan-giggs-manchester-united-manage-another-club

[Tim P]

May 2, 2014 14:32:13 GMT @baresi said:

May 2, 2014 13:46:16 GMT Tim P said:

Link?

www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/02/ryan-giggs-manchester-united-manage-another-club

Cheers. I'm interested in how this plays out - seems like a power play from Giggs to strengthen his position.

[Deleted]

May 3, 2014 16:36:36 GMT Tim P said:

May 2, 2014 14:32:13 GMT @baresi said:

www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/02/ryan-giggs-manchester-united-manage-another-club

Cheers. I'm interested in how this plays out - seems like a power play from Giggs to strengthen his position.

He really proved what an awesome manager he is today.

[abwales]

Mourinho & Pellegrini failed to beat Sunderland at home, both with better sides than United's. All 3 of them are shit managers because of it, bloody awful.

[ontheroadagain]

Interesting comments from van Persie regarding Giggs' teamtalks.

www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/robin-van-persie-man-united-3512170

Only one part of the job, but he seems to have nailed this.

[quetzal]

Coleman hasn't even gone and Abbandonato has started his campaign to make Giggs Welsh Manager. Take a look on Walesonline. Hes started it!!!

www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/wales-dismiss-chris-coleman-links-11686461

[cymroircarn]

WOL gets worse by the day

[toshfan]

I was worried that Abbo was advocating Giggsy as the next manager. Saying someone is an obvious candidate is not quite the same thing for me. Phew!

I have a lot of time for Abbo but would strongly disagree with any campaign for Giggsy.

Ideally, we will get one more qualification round out of Coleman.

[larslagerback]

Don't click the link!

Clickbait is how this filthy rag survives these days.

[toshfan]

Aug 1, 2016 22:27:14 GMT larslagerback said:

Don't click the link!

Clickbait is how this filthy rag survives these days.

Abbo (Walesonline) and Rob Phillips (BBC Wales) amongst others do deserve our respect. They are genuine in their passion for Welsh Football.

[iot]

Aug 2, 2016 11:30:16 GMT toshfan said:

Aug 1, 2016 22:27:14 GMT larslagerback said:

Don't click the link!

Clickbait is how this filthy rag survives these days.

Abbo (Walesonline) and Rob Phillips (BBC Wales) amongst others do deserve our respect. They are genuine in their passion for Welsh Football.

None more than Chris Wathan!

[toshfan]

Aug 2, 2016 11:51:01 GMT iot said:

Aug 2, 2016 11:30:16 GMT toshfan said:

Abbo (Walesonline) and Rob Phillips (BBC Wales) amongst others do deserve our respect. They are genuine in their passion for Welsh Football.

None more than Chris Wathan!

Yes, he is excellent too!

[welshiron]

Anyone but Giggs for me, really don't want him anywhere near our national team.

Maybe he could take a role managing one of the junior teams or put some time into grass roots football ( although that would probably be in Manchester)

[larslagerback]

Aug 2, 2016 11:51:01 GMT iot said:

Aug 2, 2016 11:30:16 GMT toshfan said:

Abbo (Walesonline) and Rob Phillips (BBC Wales) amongst others do deserve our respect. They are genuine in their passion for Welsh Football.

None more than Chris Wathan!

I'm sorry, I was taking the whole paper into account. And I can't respect a rag that bases its business model around clickbait and churnalism.