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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 17:07:40 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 11, 2020 17:07:40 GMT
Come on! We were playing Ireland - most of their team play in the division above us. No comparison to playing against league D teams! The reality of it is we'd struggle to put goals past a team of any standard at the moment. I wouldn't bet on us scoring against anyone at the moment, including those above. I think you're over reacting. We were disappointing today for sure but to say we wouldn't score against league D sides is a bit silly. First time we haven't scored in our league B group was today
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 17:13:50 GMT
Post by dai on Oct 11, 2020 17:13:50 GMT
The reality of it is we'd struggle to put goals past a team of any standard at the moment. I wouldn't bet on us scoring against anyone at the moment, including those above. I think you're over reacting. We were disappointing today for sure but to say we wouldn't score against league D sides is a bit silly. First time we haven't scored in our league B group was today I'm 100% not overreacting, just look at the evidence in front of me. We have been a poor scoring side overall for the past 10-15 years. However we are now at a level where we just have barely nothing sustainable up front. It;s pretty much hope for the best, or we try and pass it into the goal. I miss the likes of Bellamy who always used to provide a positive threat going forward.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 11, 2020 17:21:57 GMT
As someone mentioned on another thread, the sooner Joe Allen and our talisman return the better. Without them we're a shadow of a team. Tactically we're struggling at the moment with similar problems to those prevalent prior to Kieffer's introduction (and he obviously was only half fit today, and maybe should have been rested for Wednesday).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 17:32:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 17:32:18 GMT
Maybe we would have better performances with a more experienced manager but giggs got the results when it mattered so we have to be patient,though we do look a bit clueless at times,trouble is half our team always seem to be coming back from injuries or just not really playing at all in some cases,pretty frustrating.Think what we could do with everyone fit and firing but i guess that is rare for any country.
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harry
the carls
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Post by harry on Oct 11, 2020 17:55:07 GMT
Some slapped arses on here, you’d swear Wales had a reputation for free flowing, champagne football. Under Coleman it wasn’t too dissimilar to today. Giggs has got the team to a tournament and made us hard to beat when missing our main men, whilst today was disappointing, granted, anyone who has genuine reservations needs to get their heads tested.
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Post by caeboy on Oct 11, 2020 17:59:33 GMT
What we had under Coleman than we don't have so much under Giggs is the ability to grind out results. For all his faith in youth we could do with some more experience to help us to do that. Especially in defence which has looked so shaky at times. Even though we didn't concede today Long missed a sitter. We could do with James Chester coming back in IMO.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 18:13:25 GMT
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Post by underwood on Oct 11, 2020 18:13:25 GMT
What we had under Coleman than we don't have so much under Giggs is the ability to grind out results. For all his faith in youth we could do with some more experience to help us to do that. Especially in defence which has looked so shaky at times. Even though we didn't concede today Long missed a sitter. We could do with James Chester coming back in IMO. Yes I don’t know why Chester seems to be out in the cold, although Giggs knows that he is not the long-term solution. Does Mepham have a chance of playing on Wednesday, I am assuming so?
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 18:37:35 GMT
Post by jbt95 on Oct 11, 2020 18:37:35 GMT
What we had under Coleman than we don't have so much under Giggs is the ability to grind out results. For all his faith in youth we could do with some more experience to help us to do that. Especially in defence which has looked so shaky at times. Even though we didn't concede today Long missed a sitter. We could do with James Chester coming back in IMO. I have to disagree. We fought to the end to get 3 points v Finland & Bulgaria. Coleman's side got some late wins v Cyprus and Andorra for example, but we often took the lead and tried to protect it, which some times backfired on us especially in the WCQs for 2018.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 18:38:22 GMT
Post by jbt95 on Oct 11, 2020 18:38:22 GMT
What we had under Coleman than we don't have so much under Giggs is the ability to grind out results. For all his faith in youth we could do with some more experience to help us to do that. Especially in defence which has looked so shaky at times. Even though we didn't concede today Long missed a sitter. We could do with James Chester coming back in IMO. Yes I don’t know why Chester seems to be out in the cold, although Giggs knows that he is not the long-term solution. Does Mepham have a chance of playing on Wednesday, I am assuming so? We could do a lot worse than Chester right now. Some experience would be good.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 18:38:53 GMT
Post by jbt95 on Oct 11, 2020 18:38:53 GMT
Sad thing is Giggs seems to like his kids who aren't playing regularly. I think he's trying to be like Toshack in that sense. Issue is Ramsey, Bale, Gunter, Ledley were all playing in the championship at 17. Some of these players are in their 20s and not getting game time in anything.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 18:47:10 GMT
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barry likes this
Post by insertname on Oct 11, 2020 18:47:10 GMT
Some slapped arses on here, you’d swear Wales had a reputation for free flowing, champagne football. Under Coleman it wasn’t too dissimilar to today. Giggs has got the team to a tournament and made us hard to beat when missing our main men, whilst today was disappointing, granted, anyone who has genuine reservations needs to get their heads tested. Coleman got plaudits for going to ROI and playing for a draw with Ramsey, Bale and Allen in the team, a result that was crucial in the final reckoning leaving us needing to beat ROI at home to qualify.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 18:49:11 GMT
Post by dai on Oct 11, 2020 18:49:11 GMT
I wonder if Giggs has got one eye on the Man Utd job, hence the rather half arsed effort at the moment.....
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Post by jbt95 on Oct 11, 2020 18:50:17 GMT
Some slapped arses on here, you’d swear Wales had a reputation for free flowing, champagne football. Under Coleman it wasn’t too dissimilar to today. Giggs has got the team to a tournament and made us hard to beat when missing our main men, whilst today was disappointing, granted, anyone who has genuine reservations needs to get their heads tested. Coleman got plaudits for going to ROI and playing for a draw with Ramsey, Bale and Allen in the team, a result that was crucial in the final reckoning leaving us needing to beat ROI at home to qualify. A draw in Dublin that night in March 2017 would've been a good result had we not drawn the previous 3 games having taking the lead FOUR times. I was fuming we didn't go for it when Taylor got sent off. We had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 18:59:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by insertname on Oct 11, 2020 18:59:23 GMT
Coleman got plaudits for going to ROI and playing for a draw with Ramsey, Bale and Allen in the team, a result that was crucial in the final reckoning leaving us needing to beat ROI at home to qualify. A draw in Dublin that night in March 2017 would've been a good result had we not drawn the previous 3 games having taking the lead FOUR times. I was fuming we didn't go for it when Taylor got sent off. We had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I don’t think we have ever truly appreciated how rare it is to have all our best players on the pitch at the same time, for me that was reason enough to attack and try and win the game especially with ROI playing for a point. It seemed clear that Coleman’s strategy was to gamble by NOT playing for a win in Dublin which even at that stage meant we would have been planning on other results to go our way and if they didn’t we would have had to win our last 4 fixtures just to make the play offs. Suicidal stuff. So compared to that sort of approach in Dublin with a strong team out I think Giggs can be afforded to be cut some slack at the moment.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 19:06:09 GMT
Post by jbt95 on Oct 11, 2020 19:06:09 GMT
A draw in Dublin that night in March 2017 would've been a good result had we not drawn the previous 3 games having taking the lead FOUR times. I was fuming we didn't go for it when Taylor got sent off. We had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I don’t think we have ever truly appreciated how rare it is to have all our best players on the pitch at the same time, for me that was reason enough to attack and try and win the game especially with ROI playing for a point. It seemed clear that Coleman’s strategy was to gamble by NOT playing for a win in Dublin which even at that stage meant we would have been planning on other results to go our way and if they didn’t we would have had to win our last 4 fixtures just to make the play offs. Suicidal stuff. So compared to that sort of approach in Dublin with a strong team out I think Giggs can be afforded to be cut some slack at the moment. We just played it too safe half the time. We would've drawn at home v Austria had Coleman not taken a gamble and thrown Woodburn on. He rescued that campaign for us.
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Post by pendragon on Oct 11, 2020 19:09:57 GMT
I wonder if Giggs has got one eye on the Man Utd job, hence the rather half arsed effort at the moment..... How would that help his prospects?
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Post by caeboy on Oct 11, 2020 20:04:22 GMT
What we had under Coleman than we don't have so much under Giggs is the ability to grind out results. For all his faith in youth we could do with some more experience to help us to do that. Especially in defence which has looked so shaky at times. Even though we didn't concede today Long missed a sitter. We could do with James Chester coming back in IMO. I have to disagree. We fought to the end to get 3 points v Finland & Bulgaria. Coleman's side got some late wins v Cyprus and Andorra for example, but we often took the lead and tried to protect it, which some times backfired on us especially in the WCQs for 2018. We probably wouldn't get the 4-1 v ROI under Coleman, but I just don't see a Belgium 0-0 away result in us at the moment. - games against the better teams where the odds are against us. Our defence was shocking against England and shaky agin today. Just think a Chester could help bring on Rodon, Mepham, Cabango and allow Ampadu to play in midfield.
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Post by iot on Oct 11, 2020 20:04:25 GMT
I think you're over reacting. We were disappointing today for sure but to say we wouldn't score against league D sides is a bit silly. First time we haven't scored in our league B group was today I'm 100% not overreacting, just look at the evidence in front of me. We have been a poor scoring side overall for the past 10-15 years. However we are now at a level where we just have barely nothing sustainable up front. It;s pretty much hope for the best, or we try and pass it into the goal. I miss the likes of Bellamy who always used to provide a positive threat going forward. You most definitely are overreacting. Not meaning any offence, but around 90% of your posts are overreactions. You have a habit of doing the classic knee-jerk reaction most fans do and flounder round for simple solutions - why did they play X, why not just play y or z instead of him. That y and z are, err... checks notes, Huws, who can't get into a league 1 side, and bradshaw, who's scored once in his last 20-odd games. That up against an Ireland side full of premier league players. If we look at it dispassionately, we see that we had a GK who hasn't played a league game in months, 2 of our back 4 are championship players, and our 2 midfielders responsible for running the game haven't played a club game in about 8 months. You may question the decision of starting those two, but our alternatives are a player who can't get into a L1 side (Huws), Levitt who you're not a fan of (I also don't think he's ready btw), and joniesta which would have left us massively exposed.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 20:21:07 GMT
Post by cyfreithiwr on Oct 11, 2020 20:21:07 GMT
ramsay should be playing as an 8 not 10
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 20:35:29 GMT
Post by dai on Oct 11, 2020 20:35:29 GMT
I'm 100% not overreacting, just look at the evidence in front of me. We have been a poor scoring side overall for the past 10-15 years. However we are now at a level where we just have barely nothing sustainable up front. It;s pretty much hope for the best, or we try and pass it into the goal. I miss the likes of Bellamy who always used to provide a positive threat going forward. You most definitely are overreacting. Not meaning any offence, but around 90% of your posts are overreactions. You have a habit of doing the classic knee-jerk reaction most fans do and flounder round for simple solutions - why did they play X, why not just play y or z instead of him. That y and z are, err... checks notes, Huws, who can't get into a league 1 side, and bradshaw, who's scored once in his last 20-odd games. That up against an Ireland side full of premier league players. If we look at it dispassionately, we see that we had a GK who hasn't played a league game in months, 2 of our back 4 are championship players, and our 2 midfielders responsible for running the game haven't played a club game in about 8 months. You may question the decision of starting those two, but our alternatives are a player who can't get into a L1 side (Huws), Levitt who you're not a fan of (I also don't think he's ready btw), and joniesta which would have left us massively exposed. Fair points, and no offence taken, I'm a classic over-reactor in all aspects of life. Thinking rationally tonight, I think the problem is, our squad just isn't very good - and this is disappointing because a few years ago Smith, Woodburn, C Roberts, Harry Wilson etc all came on the scene with a bit of a bang, but now they've failed to kick on and are all pretty average. When comparing this squad to the Euro 16 - WC Qual 18 one, and I think this one is way behind. During that time our core squad consisted of PL+C'ship players, but now we've had to delve in the u21's and lower leagues. Back in 2014-2018 our midfield options were Allen, Ledley, Edwards, King now we have Allen, Smith, Morrell and Vaulks. (+ Ampadu if he were to play there again). It's a serious drop off. A lot of my frustrations come from the fact I'm concerned about the teams' future. We haven't got any superstars / top players coming through, well none of the likes of Allen, B Davies, Ramsey, Bale, Chester and A Williams. And some of our most promised players just haven't fulfilled their one potential.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 21:05:40 GMT
Post by iot on Oct 11, 2020 21:05:40 GMT
You most definitely are overreacting. Not meaning any offence, but around 90% of your posts are overreactions. You have a habit of doing the classic knee-jerk reaction most fans do and flounder round for simple solutions - why did they play X, why not just play y or z instead of him. That y and z are, err... checks notes, Huws, who can't get into a league 1 side, and bradshaw, who's scored once in his last 20-odd games. That up against an Ireland side full of premier league players. If we look at it dispassionately, we see that we had a GK who hasn't played a league game in months, 2 of our back 4 are championship players, and our 2 midfielders responsible for running the game haven't played a club game in about 8 months. You may question the decision of starting those two, but our alternatives are a player who can't get into a L1 side (Huws), Levitt who you're not a fan of (I also don't think he's ready btw), and joniesta which would have left us massively exposed. Fair points, and no offence taken, I'm a classic over-reactor in all aspects of life. Thinking rationally tonight, I think the problem is, our squad just isn't very good - and this is disappointing because a few years ago Smith, Woodburn, C Roberts, Harry Wilson etc all came on the scene with a bit of a bang, but now they've failed to kick on and are all pretty average. When comparing this squad to the Euro 16 - WC Qual 18 one, and I think this one is way behind. During that time our core squad consisted of PL+C'ship players, but now we've had to delve in the u21's and lower leagues. Back in 2014-2018 our midfield options were Allen, Ledley, Edwards, King now we have Allen, Smith, Morrell and Vaulks. (+ Ampadu if he were to play there again). It's a serious drop off. A lot of my frustrations come from the fact I'm concerned about the teams' future. We haven't got any superstars / top players coming through, well none of the likes of Allen, B Davies, Ramsey, Bale, Chester and A Williams. And some of our most promised players just haven't fulfilled their one potential. Ha, glad no offence was taken and I agree with most of that. I think most of us got carried away with the youngsters a couple of seasons ago and, as you say, a couple of them certainly do not look like they will fulfil their potential. Wilson definitely. I was really excited about james after his swansea form and the first slovakia game, but not so much any more. I think Ampadu still has the potential to be a top class player, but I have to admit the last couple of games have disappointed me. I was also really disappointed with rodon today after he's been very good the couple of times i've seen him for swansea and us. I'm not sure at all thata tyler roberts will ever kick on, whilst it's too early to say with some of the others. You're definitely right that none of those coming through are likely to match the stardust of bale and ramsey, but they could be as good as the others you mentioned. Not sure that will be enough to qualify in future campaigns though.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 21:20:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by holmesdaleultra on Oct 11, 2020 21:20:40 GMT
Does not take long for the Ryan detractors to come out of the woods does it.
Our Ryan is doing an exceptional job in difficult circumstances.
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 21:22:26 GMT
Post by pendragon on Oct 11, 2020 21:22:26 GMT
I think Brooks, Ampadu and Neco Williams all have the potential to be top players (in the sense that they are able to play in the top-flight).
However, you have to ask yourself whether the ability of the team is the sole issue here when you have other European teams who lack "world class talent" but are still punching well above their weight.
We need a cohesive plan and an organisational structure, which we seem to be lacking at the moment, along with a lack of creativity in midfield (I think Ethan works better for us in midfield, particularly with Allen absent).
Yet, we have managed to deploy some sort of structure and get results, even without our best attacking players involved, such as the 2018 NL away game to Ireland, so something clearly isn't working at the moment.
I wouldn't be surprised if we are impacted by form at the moment too, particularly with regards to our midfield.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 11, 2020 21:37:06 GMT
I have to disagree. We fought to the end to get 3 points v Finland & Bulgaria. Coleman's side got some late wins v Cyprus and Andorra for example, but we often took the lead and tried to protect it, which some times backfired on us especially in the WCQs for 2018. We probably wouldn't get the 4-1 v ROI under Coleman, but I just don't see a Belgium 0-0 away result in us at the moment. - games against the better teams where the odds are against us. Our defence was shocking against England and shaky agin today. Just think a Chester could help bring on Rodon, Mepham, Cabango and allow Ampadu to play in midfield. I agree - but I think that is something that just comes with time unfortunately. Our squad isn't battle hardened at the moment but I think we won't be until the majority of our starting XI are playing regular top flight football. 0-0 to Belgium we had Hennessey, Chester, Williams, Taylor, Allen, Ledley, Ramsey and Bale as top flight players - a strong core. With this generation I think we'll end up with a starting XI who are nearly all top flight regulars - but it might not be for another 3/4 years. That's when we're more likely to see a result against one of the big boys - for now we're a little way off our peak as a group
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Giggs
Oct 11, 2020 21:52:56 GMT
Post by dai on Oct 11, 2020 21:52:56 GMT
Does not take long for the Ryan detractors to come out of the woods does it.
Our Ryan is doing an exceptional job in difficult circumstances. Oh seriously. I've been a Giggs supporter from the very start, credit where it's due and criticism where it's due. He deserved credit for getting us into Euro 2020, but equally deserves criticism for how very poor we've been the past 4 matches.
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Post by cadno on Oct 11, 2020 22:27:17 GMT
Does not take long for the Ryan detractors to come out of the woods does it.
Our Ryan is doing an exceptional job in difficult circumstances. Oh seriously. I've been a Giggs supporter from the very start, credit where it's due and criticism where it's due. He deserved credit for getting us into Euro 2020, but equally deserves criticism for how very poor we've been the past 4 matches. Not sure why Neco came on the wing, and Levitt in midfield. Why not bring Joniesta on? Would deffo offer a lot more than Levitt. Matondo would've caused them some problems too.
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Post by llan123 on Oct 11, 2020 22:50:16 GMT
Tbh, my gripe is with the young players. And let's be honest, some of these will not make it in a few years time, so why not play some actual club hardened footballers, who could arguably contribute much more? Levit for example is only there because of the United connection. Spot on Dai. I feel like he's playing the youth for the sake of it when clearly a lot of them do not have a future with Wales beyond maybe 10 caps (despite what you read on here where it seems every young welsh lad is destined for world stardom). Let's pick a settled team going forward, if any youngsters play well for their championship club or above then lets slot them in. Playing Levitt so much is absurd.
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 11, 2020 23:01:54 GMT
I think Brooks, Ampadu and Neco Williams all have the potential to be top players (in the sense that they are able to play in the top-flight). However, you have to ask yourself whether the ability of the team is the sole issue here when you have other European teams who lack "world class talent" but are still punching well above their weight. We need a cohesive plan and an organisational structure, which we seem to be lacking at the moment, along with a lack of creativity in midfield (I think Ethan works better for us in midfield, particularly with Allen absent). Yet, we have managed to deploy some sort of structure and get results, even without our best attacking players involved, such as the 2018 NL away game to Ireland, so something clearly isn't working at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if we are impacted by form at the moment too, particularly with regards to our midfield. You say that other European teams are ‘punching above their weight’ but we are top group B in the second tier of the Nations League having played arguably the toughest two teams away from home without conceding a goal and have qualified for the Euros. There’s plenty of countries looking at us and thinking that we are punching above our weight.
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 0:16:29 GMT
Post by pendragon on Oct 12, 2020 0:16:29 GMT
I think Brooks, Ampadu and Neco Williams all have the potential to be top players (in the sense that they are able to play in the top-flight). However, you have to ask yourself whether the ability of the team is the sole issue here when you have other European teams who lack "world class talent" but are still punching well above their weight. We need a cohesive plan and an organisational structure, which we seem to be lacking at the moment, along with a lack of creativity in midfield (I think Ethan works better for us in midfield, particularly with Allen absent). Yet, we have managed to deploy some sort of structure and get results, even without our best attacking players involved, such as the 2018 NL away game to Ireland, so something clearly isn't working at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if we are impacted by form at the moment too, particularly with regards to our midfield. You say that other European teams are ‘punching above their weight’ but we are top group B in the second tier of the Nations League having played arguably the toughest two teams away from home without conceding a goal and have qualified for the Euros. There’s plenty of countries looking at us and thinking that we are punching above our weight. I don't disagree. My post was in response to someone who suggested that all the shortcomings in the squad was due to a lack of quality in the team. My point is that there are lots of teams out there particularly in Europe, who are deemed to suffer from a "lack of quality" but that does not stop them performing well as a team.
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 8:05:52 GMT
Post by richierich333 on Oct 12, 2020 8:05:52 GMT
What we had under Coleman than we don't have so much under Giggs is the ability to grind out results. For all his faith in youth we could do with some more experience to help us to do that. Especially in defence which has looked so shaky at times. Even though we didn't concede today Long missed a sitter. We could do with James Chester coming back in IMO. That is exactly what we have done in the last 3 games in the Nations League! We have grinded out two 1-0 scrappy wins and a clean sheet away in Ireland. People have short memories about Coleman and seem to forget the 0-0 Israel at home and the 1-1 Georgia game at home not to mention the 0-1 Ireland match. Hardly grinding them out in those were we.
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