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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 8:11:51 GMT
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 12, 2020 8:11:51 GMT
What we had under Coleman than we don't have so much under Giggs is the ability to grind out results. For all his faith in youth we could do with some more experience to help us to do that. Especially in defence which has looked so shaky at times. Even though we didn't concede today Long missed a sitter. We could do with James Chester coming back in IMO. That is exactly what we have done in the last 3 games in the Nations League! We have grinded out two 1-0 scrappy wins and a clean sheet away in Ireland. People have short memories about Coleman and seem to forget the 0-0 Israel at home and the 1-1 Georgia game at home not to mention the 0-1 Ireland match. Hardly grinding them out in those were we.
That Georgia game at home was one of the worst performances I've seen from a Welsh side. We should've lost.
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 8:12:39 GMT
Post by richierich333 on Oct 12, 2020 8:12:39 GMT
That is exactly what we have done in the last 3 games in the Nations League! We have grinded out two 1-0 scrappy wins and a clean sheet away in Ireland. People have short memories about Coleman and seem to forget the 0-0 Israel at home and the 1-1 Georgia game at home not to mention the 0-1 Ireland match. Hardly grinding them out in those were we.
That Georgia game at home was one of the worst performances I've seen from a Welsh side. We should've lost. Second half we made them look like Barca
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 8:46:14 GMT
Post by pendragon on Oct 12, 2020 8:46:14 GMT
To be honest, my biggest concern with Giggs at the moment is that there has been too little fluidity. The team seems rather scrappy, rather than organised as Finland, Ireland and Bulgaria have been. I'd like to see him implement half-time changes when it's clear things aren't going to plan.
Get these sorted and we could see a much improved overall performance.
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 9:01:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 12, 2020 9:01:06 GMT
To be honest, my biggest concern with Giggs at the moment is that there has been too little fluidity. The team seems rather scrappy, rather than organised as Finland, Ireland and Bulgaria have been. I'd like to see him implement half-time changes when it's clear things aren't going to plan. Get these sorted and we could see a much improved overall performance. I'm going to give Giggs the benefit of the doubt so far in these 3 games due to irregularities in the season causing the lack of fluency in the first two & having 6 starters who weren't sharp enough in the last one. If we just get through this next game with a win I'll judge him on fluency in the next camp when everyone should be playing at least semi regularly & if not shouldn't be starting in my opinion Edit* I'm also trying not to under appreciate that we've kept 3 clean sheets in a row! Every team looking at playing us is going to know they're in for a tough game before they even step on the field & I like the mentality that breeds. If we start clicking offensively our defensive solidity is setting a platform for us to really excel
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 9:20:17 GMT
Post by pendragon on Oct 12, 2020 9:20:17 GMT
To be honest, my biggest concern with Giggs at the moment is that there has been too little fluidity. The team seems rather scrappy, rather than organised as Finland, Ireland and Bulgaria have been. I'd like to see him implement half-time changes when it's clear things aren't going to plan. Get these sorted and we could see a much improved overall performance. I'm going to give Giggs the benefit of the doubt so far in these 3 games due to irregularities in the season causing the lack of fluency in the first two & having 6 starters who weren't sharp enough in the last one. If we just get through this next game with a win I'll judge him on fluency in the next camp when everyone should be playing at least semi regularly & if not shouldn't be starting in my opinion Edit* I'm also trying not to under appreciate that we've kept 3 clean sheets in a row! Every team looking at playing us is going to know they're in for a tough game before they even step on the field & I like the mentality that breeds. If we start clicking offensively our defensive solidity is setting a platform for us to really excel I do agree with you and I am not trying to downplay his achievements. I was one of those advocating for his appointment during his candidacy and I do appreciate that what he has achieved so far, has been no mean feat. We have improved immensely even since our last NL games two years ago. However, I won't lie that the performance aspect genuinely concerns me at the moment because we have been close to conceding a few times during this campaign, and even with the lack of top personnel (due to injury), we do know that we're capable of putting on a better display than that. It could be, that given the lack of form, Giggs was happy to settle for a draw in this game, having setting his sights on the Bulgaria match, but as I said, the lack of fluidity is something I think could be resolved and potentially improve our goals ratio in the process.
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 9:34:02 GMT
Post by aberbeeg on Oct 12, 2020 9:34:02 GMT
Let’s be honest the past 4 games the performances have been very poor.
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Post by ae15 on Oct 12, 2020 9:55:16 GMT
Well I have to say I am baffled at the range of reactions to Thursday and yesterday on this forum.
It doesn’t really need saying that it would be absolute madness for anyone to want Giggs out at this point. The guy’s taken us to our third ever major tournament and managed to promote a load of promising youngsters at the same time. I think most on here would have previously seen that as the ideal performance from a Wales manager.
That’s not to say I don’t have serious misgivings about his time in charge however. Organisation and pragmatism are the most important things in international football. France wouldn’t have won the World Cup without Giroud up front and Matuidi on the wing. For whatever reason in the last four games we’ve looked anything but coherent.
We still don’t know what our best side is, partly because of constant injuries, but also because Giggs doesn’t seem to have decided. It did look like he favoured Rodon and Mepham at centre back and Ampadu in midfield, but by moving Ampadu back there yesterday it completely changed the balance of the side again. Smith and Morrell have done well at times, but neither of them offer themselves to receive the ball in deep positions like Ampadu or Allen. At that point, the “patient” game Giggs wants us to play completely falls apart. He’s got to play at least one player in that position who can drop deep and play fast, incisive balls through the lines.
Another issue is the lack of a plan B. When this “patient” game doesn’t work out, it’s hard to see what the next plan is. Giggs said yesterday that we were off our game because Ireland “pressed” us well. I have to say I really don’t know what he was seeing there, because Ireland were generally pretty happy for us to have the ball even relatively high up the pitch, and constantly gave the ball away to us in attacking areas. The main issue for us was a complete lack of intensity. Rarely ever were our players in wide areas able to isolate their full backs, and our full backs almost never overlapped the wingers. We didn’t press from the front, and we didn’t get forward in numbers when we won the ball in dangerous areas. We can’t rely on a patient game in international football, where top sides will press us far more than the likes of Ireland, and worse sides will play a low block and make themselves hard to break down.
Hopefully it’s just a case of getting the players together more often again and getting into a rhythm. The Hungary performance was outstanding, we need to get back to that level of intensity before the Euros.
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 10:41:41 GMT
Post by richierich333 on Oct 12, 2020 10:41:41 GMT
Let’s be honest the past 4 games the performances have been very poor. If we win our Nations League group it won't really matter. 2 wins, a draw and 3 clean sheets (disregarding the friendly) regardless of performance, is excellent. We are lacking a cutting edge and not scoring enough goals granted but we do not have a massive pool of strikers. In fact we only have one of note at the moment which will inevitably cause some problems when trying to scoring goals. Personally I don't know why we don't look at Luke Jephcott from Plymouth. Wouldn't do any damage in a friendly.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 12, 2020 11:12:59 GMT
Is there any tactical plan at the moment? Has to be a plan'A' before a plan'B'. During the last couple of fixtures especially (barring first 30 mins v England), passing the ball back and fore sideways between the defenders and goalkeeper aimlessly (then an individual error) isn't going to get us many goals. Perhaps there's not enough movement amongst our more forward players also. We will be better I'm sure when Joe Allen comes back fit and firing (hopefully), and Gareth Bale's form should improve now he's out of Madrid. But it does highlight the fact that we still have a small group of real quality players and we need the '1st' team playing together (doesn't happen very often I know) for better performances.
At the very least we're picking up qualifying points when playing poorly, so that's a plus.
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Giggs
Oct 12, 2020 11:26:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 12, 2020 11:26:51 GMT
Let’s be honest the past 4 games the performances have been very poor. If we win our Nations League group it won't really matter. 2 wins, a draw and 3 clean sheets (disregarding the friendly) regardless of performance, is excellent. We are lacking a cutting edge and not scoring enough goals granted but we do not have a massive pool of strikers. In fact we only have one of note at the moment which will inevitably cause some problems when trying to scoring goals. Personally I don't know why we don't look at Luke Jephcott from Plymouth. Wouldn't do any damage in a friendly. For me a new striker wouldn't change much. The problem isn't that we are creating good chances and our strikers aren't taking them. The problem is the build up & the fact that we're struggling to break teams down who employ a mid-block. Moore solved the problem for when we were being pressed high (play long to him & retain the ball usually in behind their midfield line) and when we play teams in a low block (cross to him & score or feed off knock downs in danger areas). However, I believed Finland worked this out against us - if they employ a mid-block we can't go long to Moore as their midfielders are close to him, and we also struggle to play through them with no space in behind for our wingers. Bulgaria & Ireland also played in a mid-block and it's stifled us I don't believe this to be the sole problem - I think having Ramsey in the side is essential if we're to break down teams in a mid block. But around him we need players who are fit and sharp. Yesterday he was playing with Wilson, Smith & Morrell who basically haven't played this season, and Moore/James who were both coming into the game on the back of injuries and clearly both struggling Next camp we should have Bale, Brooks, Morrell & Moore back up to 100% speed. I'd imagine this would make a huge difference to our overall fluency
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Giggs
Oct 14, 2020 6:54:59 GMT
Post by aberbeeg on Oct 14, 2020 6:54:59 GMT
So lots more sideways passing then eventually give the ball away under pressure cos we don’t have technically good enough footballers to pass the ball under pressure.
How many times did we give the ball away against ROI.
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Oct 14, 2020 20:38:27 GMT
Ryan is a tactical genius.
Well done.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 14, 2020 20:52:15 GMT
Much better today overall. I would love to see us play that way when the big boys are fit.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 14, 2020 21:28:33 GMT
6 competitive clean sheets in a row.
9 games unbeaten in competitive matches in a row.
This is truly a great era of Welsh football we're living in. In Giggs we trust.
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Post by njdragon on Oct 14, 2020 21:28:46 GMT
what a superb job giggs is doing! Years ago we would never have even fancied the win tonight, even during the coleman years.
We needed a bale, ramsey and allen to get results, tonight we had none of them.
first time qualifying and now top of this group. time to give credit where its due... and jonny williams so chuffed for him.
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Post by cadno on Oct 14, 2020 21:31:00 GMT
6 competitive clean sheets in a row. 9 games unbeaten in competitive matches in a row. This is truly a great era of Welsh football we're living in. In Giggs we trust. Much better tonight, an impressive performance and I like the way he set us up! Hope he sticks with this formation! Now let's get into league A and show what we can do against the very top teams.
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Post by iot on Oct 14, 2020 21:33:14 GMT
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Giggs
Oct 14, 2020 21:35:04 GMT
Post by iot on Oct 14, 2020 21:35:04 GMT
I suspect Giggs still favours the 4231, but considering we will be the under dogs in the euros, it might not be a bad idea to use next month's games to get more used to the 343 formation
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Giggs
Oct 14, 2020 21:57:14 GMT
Post by dai on Oct 14, 2020 21:57:14 GMT
I suspect Giggs still favours the 4231, but considering we will be the under dogs in the euros, it might not be a bad idea to use next month's games to get more used to the 343 formation Hopefully after tonight he's learnt that flexibility isn't a bad thing. I think either formation can be effective if using the appropriate personnel.
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Post by richierich333 on Oct 14, 2020 22:10:10 GMT
If we win our group the history books will not remember our derogatory remarks about not having enough going forward or our sideways passing or our 8 senior players missing. They will show we had 4 clean sheets 3 wins and a draw away to Ireland. That is it. Have some humility.
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2020 9:41:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by jimbo82 on Oct 15, 2020 9:41:19 GMT
I remember the Azerbaijan embassy messed us all around with visas (including the Wales squad). I think it was about 70 of us in the Wales end and the FAW paid for our tickets as a gesture of goodwill! Also some of us had driven there and visited orphanages with the Gôl charity which led to one of my favourite moments in football when a chant started up: "Stand up if you came by car!" Great result in the end too, and i think Toshack even managed a smile and a wave..
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2020 9:45:28 GMT
Post by gwernybwch on Oct 15, 2020 9:45:28 GMT
Ryan is a tactical genius. Well done. A tactical genius? If only there was a Welshman that he could have had in his set-up which was highly experienced at operating a 5 at the back system. A sort of Assistant Manager / Technical Director type figure. Giggs seems so stubborn at times, almost that it takes a tanking before he will re-think his ideas. Nevertheless it is a well done that it looks like he is trying to develop a Plan B. The players seemed to be very well coached in the system.
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harry
the carls
Posts: 75
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Post by harry on Oct 15, 2020 11:56:51 GMT
If you’re not convinced by now then find a new sport as football isn’t for you I’m afraid
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Post by squatter1 on Oct 15, 2020 13:01:02 GMT
Well, except that after the 'coming of age' 2009 game in Azerbaijan, we were basically still shite for the following six years until the 2015 qualifying campaign.
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2020 13:07:20 GMT
Post by squatter1 on Oct 15, 2020 13:07:20 GMT
I suspect Giggs still favours the 4231, but considering we will be the under dogs in the euros, it might not be a bad idea to use next month's games to get more used to the 343 formation My problem with the idea of 3-4-3/5-3-3 or whatever is that our squad is completely lacking wingbacks on the left. If people are excited about us using wing backs then that means getting excited about seeing a lot more of RND, currently a Luton player. Davies can play there, but we all know he's better at LB or LCB. The idea that 3-4-3 suits the squad we have is not true. Our riches are in attacking midfield/wide players.
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Oct 15, 2020 13:18:43 GMT
I suspect Giggs still favours the 4231, but considering we will be the under dogs in the euros, it might not be a bad idea to use next month's games to get more used to the 343 formation My problem with the idea of 3-4-3/5-3-3 or whatever is that our squad is completely lacking wingbacks on the left. If people are excited about us using wing backs then that means getting excited about seeing a lot more of RND, currently a Luton player. Davies can play there, but we all know he's better at LB or LCB. The idea that 3-4-3 suits the squad we have is not true. Our riches are in attacking midfield/wide players. Very weird dig at RND there. He’s playing well at a championship club, and played superbly last night. People have every right to be excited about him, as he looks a top prospect. Bizarre comment.
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2020 13:21:13 GMT
Post by gwernybwch on Oct 15, 2020 13:21:13 GMT
If you’re not convinced by now then find a new sport as football isn’t for you I’m afraid Another great contribution there harry If you can't communicate your thoughts without resorting to personal insults, then find a new forum as this one isn't for you.
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2020 13:37:53 GMT
Post by walesgolfmadrid on Oct 15, 2020 13:37:53 GMT
I suspect Giggs still favours the 4231, but considering we will be the under dogs in the euros, it might not be a bad idea to use next month's games to get more used to the 343 formation My problem with the idea of 3-4-3/5-3-3 or whatever is that our squad is completely lacking wingbacks on the left. If people are excited about us using wing backs then that means getting excited about seeing a lot more of RND, currently a Luton player. Davies can play there, but we all know he's better at LB or LCB. The idea that 3-4-3 suits the squad we have is not true. Our riches are in attacking midfield/wide players. We've got players suited to the system. Neco and Connor Roberts are better at right-wing back, Joe Rodon's best position is in the middle of the back three, Ben Davies best position is left centre-back in a back three, Chris Mepham and Ben Cabango are both playing in that right centre-back in a back three for their clubs and Norrington-Davies is well suited to that left wing-back role that he'll have played plenty.
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2020 13:42:33 GMT
Post by iot on Oct 15, 2020 13:42:33 GMT
My problem with the idea of 3-4-3/5-3-3 or whatever is that our squad is completely lacking wingbacks on the left. If people are excited about us using wing backs then that means getting excited about seeing a lot more of RND, currently a Luton player. Davies can play there, but we all know he's better at LB or LCB. The idea that 3-4-3 suits the squad we have is not true. Our riches are in attacking midfield/wide players. We've got players suited to the system. Neco and Connor Roberts are better at right-wing back, Joe Rodon's best position is in the middle of the back three, Ben Davies best position is left centre-back in a back three, Chris Mepham and Ben Cabango are both playing in that right centre-back in a back three for their clubs and Norrington-Davies is well suited to that left wing-back role that he'll have played plenty. I suspect Ampadu's best position is also as part of a back three, whilst it's worth testing Dan James out in the LWB position
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Giggs
Oct 15, 2020 13:47:57 GMT
Post by TheWelshWay on Oct 15, 2020 13:47:57 GMT
My problem with the idea of 3-4-3/5-3-3 or whatever is that our squad is completely lacking wingbacks on the left. If people are excited about us using wing backs then that means getting excited about seeing a lot more of RND, currently a Luton player. Davies can play there, but we all know he's better at LB or LCB. The idea that 3-4-3 suits the squad we have is not true. Our riches are in attacking midfield/wide players. We've got players suited to the system. Neco and Connor Roberts are better at right-wing back, Joe Rodon's best position is in the middle of the back three, Ben Davies best position is left centre-back in a back three, Chris Mepham and Ben Cabango are both playing in that right centre-back in a back three for their clubs and Norrington-Davies is well suited to that left wing-back role that he'll have played plenty. We have the players, but is it the best system for the strenghts of our squad - No. Other than getting the best out of Neco the switch of system doesn't help much of our best players, as our defenders have looked solid in a back 4.
I beleive we should be looking at it against higher ranked teams and maybe League A will give us that chance. But not sure we should be going into the next NL games and WCQ with a view of switching systems.
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