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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 10:59:57 GMT
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 3, 2020 10:59:57 GMT
Long post incoming Given what we learned about the situation regarding his brother's wife I've never been fond of Giggs' character as a person. However, when he was given the job I decided it was time to leave my personal feelings towards him at the door, as supporting our country is more important I've never been a hater, and I think all managers deserve leniency when they're starting a new job. I always understood what he was trying to achieve with this team & even when results weren't great I supported him as our manager because I saw his vision. Since results have turned for the better I think he's really come into his own as a manager - and he's achieved some quite remarkable things with us. I've been really looking forward to where we are going under him, and I think from purely a footballing perspective he deserves a lot of praise Now with this news out it's time for my personal feelings to return. I completely believe in innocent until proven guilty, however, based on what we know about him this really is troubling. It's been reported that the police had been alerted to a domestic disturbance and that his girlfriend had minor injuries. I'm not sure why anyone would report these two things if they weren't true - they don't seem like unbelievable things to happen. If the police have initially arrested him, there must have at least been some obvious evidence of this at the scene. If Giggs didn't have a history of moral bankruptcy then perhaps we could wait this out to see what happens. Because he does I think it would be too damaging to the FAW's brand to wait it out. Whilst he's done a good job for us he's not untouchable and I think this could get messy, without going away for a long long time (these things are never resolved quickly). We can't afford a protracted period of this hanging over our head The FAW have worked so hard to develop the women's game in our country. Can we afford to have a men's team manager who has potentially committed a violent act against a woman? What sort of message would that send, even if it's only speculated at this point? I'm honestly so disappointed in him. He's not an easy character to warm to, but all the positive results we've achieved I feel a lot of us were warming to him slowly. But this is part of what disturbs me most. He's so quiet, mild, unassuming & passion-less in the way he presents himself to us as fans, and the world in general. So then when you hear he's slept with his brother's wife and allegedly hit his girlfriend is makes me feel really uneasy about him, and he comes across as completely dishonest. I don't want to feel that way towards our national team manager At the end of the day he's not the be all and end all of our country's footballing landscape, despite him doing a really good job in my opinion. I don't think he deserves to stay at this point, and I think it would take some pretty compelling evidence to turn this around, that I can't see happening in the short term. Any good faith he'd built with the Welsh public is now gone. For me it's time to move on. Thank you for your contribution Giggs, I'll always wonder what could have been but I won't feel sad to see someone of his character gone Get Cookie back now! Good post and a lot of good points. On the FAW brand though would it be more harmful to the brand to take him out of the spotlight and allow the police to do their investigation, releasing him if he’s guilty... or to fire someone who’s later found innocent. On the potentially committed violence against a woman, I think the potential is there for everyone. Takes me back to a safeguarding course I did, the person doing it said the only thing a DBS check does is separate the ones who’ve been caught from the ones who haven’t. You need to have your guard up all the time, even though it’s not looking good for Giggs he’s not been convicted of anything. I think if or when the time comes that guilt is proven we should then take action on his alleged crime.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 11:02:06 GMT
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Post by evans1282 on Nov 3, 2020 11:02:06 GMT
I don’t know what all these letters mean when it comes to assault. Could he have had a heated argument with his girlfriend, went to leave the house, his girlfriend tried to stop him and she fell over hurting herself when he tried pushing past her? Or would that not be an assault investigation? There is lots of ways people can hurt people with absolutely no intention, accidents can happen, obviously though there’s also plenty of ways people get hurt with intention. It's of course possible. However, the question is then if it was just an argument and a resulting accident then 1. why were the police called? It's a fair answer to then say the neighbours called them (if he lives somewhere where he has close neighbours) and 2. when the police arrived if it was just an accident surely his girlfriend would have said as much. There seems to be too much evidence for Giggs to be able to keep his job at this point. I'm not suggesting this happened ,but domestics are a minefield,eg drunk husband returns home wife tells him dinners in the bin and starts berating him ,then starts to ineffectually hit him ,he covers up and hopes she tires out against his arms,one blow slips his guard and hurts ,he pushes her away and his arm cracks her nose ,it bleeds.Police arrive and arrest husband for assault and ABH.Just so you are aware I've not made this up that's a domestic I attended.It didn't result in a charge.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 11:09:34 GMT
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 3, 2020 11:09:34 GMT
I don’t know what all these letters mean when it comes to assault. Could he have had a heated argument with his girlfriend, went to leave the house, his girlfriend tried to stop him and she fell over hurting herself when he tried pushing past her? Or would that not be an assault investigation? There is lots of ways people can hurt people with absolutely no intention, accidents can happen, obviously though there’s also plenty of ways people get hurt with intention. It's of course possible. However, the question is then if it was just an argument and a resulting accident then 1. why were the police called? It's a fair answer to then say the neighbours called them (if he lives somewhere where he has close neighbours) and 2. when the police arrived if it was just an accident surely his girlfriend would have said as much. There seems to be too much evidence for Giggs to be able to keep his job at this point. I was about to suggest neighbours 😂 you can never get a full picture listening through the wall but obviously they’d have made the right decision intervening. On the second point, heated argument where neither party wants to back down. If the police got involved has further escalated things. He might have appeared too heated for the police to just leave the scene or if the rumours of the drinking with one of the Nevilles true he could have been drunk and the police felt there was too large of a risk. There could be a scenario from her point of view she felt that if he hadn’t barged past her she wouldn’t have hurt herself so blamed him for it. There could also be alcohol involved where memories are altered.
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Post by jackanapes on Nov 3, 2020 11:43:51 GMT
`Let the jury consider their verdict,' the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.
`No, no!' said the Queen. `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
`Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. `The idea of having the sentence first!'
`Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple.
`I won't!' said Alice.
`Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.
Call me a traditionalist, but I'd rather wait until a court of law passed judgement on the full evidence. I don't like seeing people's careers or lives being ruined without due process, even if I don't particularly like the individual concerned. The impulse of the mob to punish immediately sickens me. If he's guilty he'll get his punishment. Patience.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 11:50:26 GMT
Post by texan on Nov 3, 2020 11:50:26 GMT
Depends on their relationship really doesn't it, if they're the shouty type it could easily be a simple case of 12 of one half a dozen of the other.
They may have been chucking things at each other for all we know. Remember my cousin (NWP) telling of a case he attended many years ago in the 90's where a couple's argument had escalated from shouting to throwing crockery, the wife chucked a mug in her husband's direction which he batted away. It smashed on the wall and small shards nicked her arm causing a small injury. He was arrested on ABH but in the end there was no charge, they just got sent to couple's counselling. Having said that it could also be the other end of the scale and Giggs had her by the throat...we just don't know.
I think the FAW won't do anything until they've discussed it with him and got his version of events. I think Ford will be anxious to speak with him asap, probably today, with a decision regarding how to go forward dependent on that.
Either way, for footballing matters' sake the FAW need a resolution to this today, whether that be Giggs ok to take the camp, parking him to the side for a while and bringing in a caretaker, or getting shot of him asap.
I think we'll have an answer at some point today.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 12:02:30 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 3, 2020 12:02:30 GMT
`Let the jury consider their verdict,' the King said, for about the twentieth time that day. `No, no!' said the Queen. `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.' `Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. `The idea of having the sentence first!' `Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple. `I won't!' said Alice. `Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved. Call me a traditionalist, but I'd rather wait until a court of law passed judgement on the full evidence. I don't like seeing people's careers or lives being ruined without due process, even if I don't particularly like the individual concerned. The impulse of the mob to punish immediately sickens me. If he's guilty he'll get his punishment. Patience. For this to be decided in court it could take months. This will be hanging over our heads and the heads of our players in a sport where psychology is very important. I don't think anyone here is stating whether he is definitively guilty or innocent. But even if he's found innocent months down the line, the controversy at present may be likely to be too much for him to keep his job. For our national team manager to even be in a position whereby this situation has arisen is highly questionable Plus we already know the extreme levels of legal action Giggs will take to attempt to suppress the release of information that paints him in a bad light. He will likely have an expensive legal team around him who will be able to give him the upper hand in court even if he did hit her Like it or not from a legal perspective, we've hired someone with a questionable past that is out in the open, therefore Giggs is already walking a tight rope with his actions. Are the public/media going to hang around with the benefit of the doubt until it's proven one way or the other a few months down the road? I don't think so. Could be innocent but should be gone either way in my opinion
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 12:21:49 GMT
Post by dai on Nov 3, 2020 12:21:49 GMT
I personally think the FAW will have no choice but to sack him asap.
They know how colourful his personal life has been, and will no doubt have built some clause into his contract that means instant dismissal if he brings the FAW into any sort of disrepute.
The FAW have worked VERY hard over the years on brand image, positive PR, and their relationship with fans. Incidents like this, regardless of the outcome will be extremely damaging for them.
I expect a dismissal either today or tomorrow.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 12:25:20 GMT
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Nov 3, 2020 12:25:20 GMT
Yeah considering Ireland, the north of Ireland, Scotland and Lloegr have all had covid related fuck-ups, I was so smug all our set-up/players seem really well-behaved. Unacceptable in the way it was our manager that has dicked us over, more seriously as well.
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harry
the carls
Posts: 75
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:01:07 GMT
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Post by harry on Nov 3, 2020 13:01:07 GMT
He's been charged with section 39 & 47. Here's an explanation of what this means that I found online:: "A section 39 assault the catch all term for common assault, battery and assault by beating. They are the least serious form of assault and are when there is an assault but no injury. Strictly speaking, a common assault is when there has been no actual contact and the victim has been ‘caused to apprehend immediate unlawful violence.’ A battery or assault by beating is when there has been contact but no injuries caused." So that sounds like she had to hold him off to prevent him from harming her. "The offence is committed when a person assaults another, thereby causing Actual Bodily Harm (ABH). This can mean a bruise or a minor graze. Section 47 Assault is an either way offence which means it can be dealt with in the Magistrates’ Court or the Crown Court, most often we see cases being dealt with at the Crown Court. In the Crown Court the offence carries a maximum sentence of five years imprisonment. There are sentencing guidelines for all assault offences and our solicitors will be able to advise you where your case falls within those guidelines." I don't think they'd have arrested him for this if she didn't have some sort of injury. Not good Where have you see that he has been charged? On the BBC site, it still says arrested, not doubting it, just curious.
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Post by llan123 on Nov 3, 2020 13:14:56 GMT
Why are people bringing up his affair with his brothers wife? As morally bankrupt as it is it has no baring on whether he should have been our manager or not nor does it provide evidence that he did in fact beat up his girlfriend. Chris Coleman had affairs and issues with his first wife, no one is whiter than white.
I've never liked Giggs as a person, I still don't. I didn't want him as manager for footballing reasons, he's proved me wrong and I now think he's doing an exceptional job for us. We should all await to hear the details before people start getting the knives out and airing their personal vendettas.
If it's some drunken fight and all is forgiven and she confirms she isn't pressing charges and it was a one off then he probably will and should keep his job. However Giggs doesn't strike me as the type to live in semi detached or terrace house, I doubt neighbours will have called the police after hearing an argument through the walls, perhaps she did call the police. Like I said all speculation at the moment, lets await the facts. I guess as I type this Giggs is giving his version of events to the FAW and they will need to think very carefully about what to do next.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:15:30 GMT
Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 3, 2020 13:15:30 GMT
He's been charged with section 39 & 47. Here's an explanation of what this means that I found online:: "A section 39 assault the catch all term for common assault, battery and assault by beating. They are the least serious form of assault and are when there is an assault but no injury. Strictly speaking, a common assault is when there has been no actual contact and the victim has been ‘caused to apprehend immediate unlawful violence.’ A battery or assault by beating is when there has been contact but no injuries caused." So that sounds like she had to hold him off to prevent him from harming her. "The offence is committed when a person assaults another, thereby causing Actual Bodily Harm (ABH). This can mean a bruise or a minor graze. Section 47 Assault is an either way offence which means it can be dealt with in the Magistrates’ Court or the Crown Court, most often we see cases being dealt with at the Crown Court. In the Crown Court the offence carries a maximum sentence of five years imprisonment. There are sentencing guidelines for all assault offences and our solicitors will be able to advise you where your case falls within those guidelines." I don't think they'd have arrested him for this if she didn't have some sort of injury. Not good Where have you see that he has been charged? On the BBC site, it still says arrested, not doubting it, just curious. Apologies - I meant arrested! You can tell I’m no expert with legalese. I’ll amend the OP
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:21:31 GMT
Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 3, 2020 13:21:31 GMT
Why are people bringing up his affair with his brothers wife? As morally bankrupt as it is it has no baring on whether he should have been our manager or not nor does it provide evidence that he did in fact beat up his girlfriend. Chris Coleman had affairs and issues with his first wife, no one is whiter than white. I've never liked Giggs as a person, I still don't. I didn't want him as manager for footballing reasons, he's proved me wrong and I now think he's doing an exceptional job for us. We should all await to hear the details before people start getting the knives out and airing their personal vendettas. If it's some drunken fight and all is forgiven and she confirms she isn't pressing charges and it was a one off then he probably will and should keep his job. However Giggs doesn't strike me as the type to live in semi detached or terrace house, I doubt neighbours will have called the police after hearing an argument through the walls, perhaps she did call the police. Like I said all speculation at the moment, lets await the facts. I guess as I type this Giggs is giving his version of events to the FAW and they will need to think very carefully about what to do next. No one has said what happened with his brother makes him guilty of this. Rather, what happened with his brother as well as these new allegations will make it look like to the majority of people that someone of his character should not be the figurehead of our national team, where you have to be squeaky clean whilst you are in the job. This is a reasonable position to hold whether he’s guilty or not. His innocence won’t stop this episode following our national team around for the next year or so - not something I’d want as a fan
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:21:53 GMT
Post by aberbeeg on Nov 3, 2020 13:21:53 GMT
Wales online reporting Giggs about to step down from this camp for “personal reasons”
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:24:35 GMT
Post by daearegwr on Nov 3, 2020 13:24:35 GMT
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:24:45 GMT
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Nov 3, 2020 13:24:45 GMT
Reported that Rob Page to take these 3 games. The sensible decision. Also allows for more evidence either way to come to light i guess.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:24:52 GMT
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Post by erasedcitizen on Nov 3, 2020 13:24:52 GMT
The Football Association of Wales and Ryan Giggs have mutually agreed that he will not be involved in the upcoming international camp.
Our agreed immediate priority is preparing the team for the upcoming international matches.
Robert Page, with Ryan’s support, will take charge for the next three matches against the USA, Republic of Ireland and Finland supported by Albert Stuivenberg.
The Cymru squad for these upcoming matches will be announced on Thursday 5th November.
The FAW will not be making any further comment at this current time.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:34:42 GMT
Post by aberbeeg on Nov 3, 2020 13:34:42 GMT
Breaking news on Sky - Ryan Gigs won’t be in charge of at least the next 3 matches
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:35:30 GMT
Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 13:35:30 GMT
What a bl00dy shame for all involved.
I hope this doesn't affect the team's morale too much.
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Post by spiritof16 on Nov 3, 2020 13:36:02 GMT
If no one else wants to start the thread I suppose I’ll have to.
If proven guilty and the FAW decide to dismiss Giggs, who would you like to see replace him?
But also who do you think WILL replace him.
Are Nathan Jones and Steve Cooper possibilities? Coleman to return? Michael Flynn??
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Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 13:36:37 GMT
Osian Roberts
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:37:28 GMT
Post by impeachabull on Nov 3, 2020 13:37:28 GMT
The Football Association of Wales and Ryan Giggs have mutually agreed that he will not be involved in the upcoming international camp. Our agreed immediate priority is preparing the team for the upcoming international matches. Robert Page, with Ryan’s support, will take charge for the next three matches against the USA, Republic of Ireland and Finland supported by Albert Stuivenberg. The Cymru squad for these upcoming matches will be announced on Thursday 5th November. The FAW will not be making any further comment at this current time. It's all a horrible mess. Considering he's denying it, I'm not sure there's much FAW can do except this. Could easily drag on way into the new year with no real idea who'll lead us into the Euros though. Very sad.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:38:16 GMT
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Post by spiritof16 on Nov 3, 2020 13:38:16 GMT
Carl Robinson would be my shout but don’t think the timing is right.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:41:47 GMT
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Post by evans1282 on Nov 3, 2020 13:41:47 GMT
Where have you see that he has been charged? On the BBC site, it still says arrested, not doubting it, just curious. Apologies - I meant arrested! You can tell I’m no expert with legalese. I’ll amend the OP It is an important thing to stress,arrest is not as big a deal, as people not involved in the criminal justice system think,let me re phrase of course it's important ,it's a power to restrict liberty,what I mean is ,if not charged it has no bearing on your future ,except in the court of public opinion.
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Post by rico on Nov 3, 2020 13:45:46 GMT
Would like to see this but he's 2 years into a 5 year deal with Morocco so imagine it would cost a fair bit, and by the sounds of it he's loving the experience there. Might well be too soon if it happens.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:46:40 GMT
Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 13:46:40 GMT
Would like to see this but he's 2 years into a 5 year deal with Morocco so imagine it would cost a fair bit, and by the sounds of it he's loving the experience there. Might well be too soon if it happens. Yes, I suspect you're right.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:53:13 GMT
Post by njdragon on Nov 3, 2020 13:53:13 GMT
i would like to see Coleman come back in to steady the ship for now, good continuity for the players.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:55:59 GMT
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Post by marsvolta on Nov 3, 2020 13:55:59 GMT
We’ve got a history of giving it to former players without any management experience like Hughes, Speed (minimal) and Giggs so what about Ashley Williams?
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:58:21 GMT
Post by gimli on Nov 3, 2020 13:58:21 GMT
Wonder if Bellamy's in with a chance? Didn't he apparently give a really good interview last time round?
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 13:58:26 GMT
Post by njdragon on Nov 3, 2020 13:58:26 GMT
Its hard to think of many that could come in and do a better job than giggs right now.
I can't think of many times in welsh football i could say that about the manager. Sad to hear all this.
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Post by marsvolta on Nov 3, 2020 13:58:50 GMT
Apologies - I meant arrested! You can tell I’m no expert with legalese. I’ll amend the OP It is an important thing to stress,arrest is not as big a deal, as people not involved in the criminal justice system think,let me re phrase of course it's important ,it's a power to restrict liberty,what I mean is ,if not charged it has no bearing on your future ,except in the court of public opinion. When you’re in the public eye then the court of public opinion is the most important.
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