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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:12:01 GMT
Post by aberbeeg on Nov 3, 2020 14:12:01 GMT
7 months out from the Euros with the potential of this nasty mess to drag on at least till then. FAW between a rock and hard place ?
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:14:49 GMT
Post by aberbeeg on Nov 3, 2020 14:14:49 GMT
Not a whole lot of “Outstanding Welsh” candidates out there at present.
No doubt the FAW are absolutely raging about this latest messy incident in Giggs personal life.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:17:42 GMT
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Post by rushlegend on Nov 3, 2020 14:17:42 GMT
The chances of Johnny Depp taking the Wales post seem as far away as ever now 😉
But on a serious note Carl Robinson would be great with Bellamy as assistant?
We could do worse.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:17:52 GMT
Post by jonathandearth on Nov 3, 2020 14:17:52 GMT
Mark Hughes please
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:19:51 GMT
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Post by evans1282 on Nov 3, 2020 14:19:51 GMT
It is an important thing to stress,arrest is not as big a deal, as people not involved in the criminal justice system think,let me re phrase of course it's important ,it's a power to restrict liberty,what I mean is ,if not charged it has no bearing on your future ,except in the court of public opinion. When you’re in the public eye then the court of public opinion is the most important. Is it really though? Or is that just such an oft repeated phrase that really means nothing
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 3, 2020 14:29:37 GMT
When the ship is steady and preparations can be made I think it's safer to take a chance on a young manager like Giggs or Bellamy. We do have time on our side (not playing again until March), but we are half-way through a cycle with a tournament to prepare for
Given this, bringing in someone like Bellamy would bring huge risks, and no time for a bedding in period. I think the same can be said for most Welsh managers in the pyramid at the moment, most just starting out in their careers
For this reason I'd favour Coleman on a short term basis. He'd immediately steady the ship with his experience and reputation in the post. He'd breathe belief into the squad from day one, and any doubts of an uncertain transition would be immediately put to rest. He knows the setup, he knows the players, most of the players pleaded with him to stay, and most of the young players would have looked up to him
He is out of work & seems to need a boost to pick his management career back up, a good showing at the Euros/WC qualifiers would do just that. Seems like it could be a mutually beneficial arrangement
I'd take him on the basis that he will be in charge for the upcoming WC qualifiers, and the Euros. If he qualifies us for the WC he can have that too. Essentially put him in place for the remainder of what would have been Giggs's contract. But I'd also have the stipulation that beyond that, regardless what happens at the Euros/WC we'd be looking to employ someone new from 2022 onwards. I think this also gives us a better idea of how it's going for all the other options like Bellamy or Jones to see how their careers are progressing
After Coleman, I think I'd like to see Bellamy have a go, but for me now isn't the right time for him, or someone of that profile to take charge. Too much of an ask
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:32:59 GMT
Post by hooky on Nov 3, 2020 14:32:59 GMT
This is a total disaster
Something happened unsavory and it looks like he will eventually stepped down
He has done an amazing job - he qualified us and got us winning games with a bunch of kids and without our 2-3 biggest players through much of it.
Page is a poor manager. I prey he does not get the manager job by default. He is simply not good enough. His management of the U21s failed to inspire. He would never get the job other than by default. NO THANK YOU
Coleman had an incredible and on fire Bale, was tactically limited, is limited and too loyal. He has failed everywhere else. He is inspiring and presents us well but that is not enough is it? Bringing him back seems like a good solution but it would be a mistake. We would soon see Gunter back in the team shoring up the defence on his watch.
Bellamy? Are you serious? Based on what?
I hope the fact we are able to attract a decent coach given we are going to the finals. Usually we wouldn't.
What is it with Wales? We get onto a good thing and something unexpected torpedoes everything. You only have to look at Welsh rugby to see the disasterous impact a change in manager can have
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:34:12 GMT
Post by njdragon on Nov 3, 2020 14:34:12 GMT
if people are talking about giggs being morally bankrupt, would bellamy be a risk worth taking? seems much more of a hothead and had his troubles. Affairs, bust ups, fighting.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:35:30 GMT
Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 14:35:30 GMT
I must admit, the thought of having Page overseeing our next three games does not inspire me with a great deal of confidence 😕
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:37:05 GMT
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Nov 3, 2020 14:37:05 GMT
Agree Osian Roberts will probably be too expensive. I also don’t see Cooper or Jones leaving their jobs. Carl Robinson has also just been appointed in his latest managerial position. Also agree Bellamy’s character too questionable too
I wouldn’t mind Coleman, I just hope he wouldn’t be too loyal to the old guard. He probably is the most cost effective appointment.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:37:39 GMT
Post by impeachabull on Nov 3, 2020 14:37:39 GMT
When you’re in the public eye then the court of public opinion is the most important. Is it really though? Or is that just such an oft repeated phrase that really means nothing I don't think the 'court of public opinion' matters for much, but - practically - we've got a manager who FAW presumably perceive as being - currently - unable to fulfil his duties. What's the end-game here? I think, the latest pre-corona data shows, the offence to end of magistrates trial time is 366 days so if the CPS do run this, we're looking at November next year. This offence might be a little quicker but I doubt it'll be resolved by June next year ( if it does go to trial) In reality, and for whatever reason, these kind of offences often don't go to court (accuser changing their mind being a frequent cause), so maybe that's the hope, but it's a really horribly messy situation.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:38:20 GMT
Post by njdragon on Nov 3, 2020 14:38:20 GMT
oh god no robert page.
brian flynn or coleman - would see us alright
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 14:50:04 GMT
Post by hooky on Nov 3, 2020 14:50:04 GMT
Page - kick it down the line to the fast man - something with happen
5-0 up against Luxemborg with a 4 on 1 overlap with 5mins to go - run it to the corner Brooksy and run down that clock
Page for manager ,,,,,, Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 14:50:37 GMT
Is it really though? Or is that just such an oft repeated phrase that really means nothing I don't think the 'court of public opinion' matters for much, but - practically - we've got a manager who FAW presumably perceive as being - currently - unable to fulfil his duties. What's the end-game here? I think, the latest pre-corona data shows, the offence to end of magistrates trial time is 366 days so if the CPS do run this, we're looking at November next year. This offence might be a little quicker but I doubt it'll be resolved by June next year ( if it does go to trial) In reality, and for whatever reason, these kind of offences often don't go to court (accuser changing their mind being a frequent cause), so maybe that's the hope, but it's a really horribly messy situation. In the current climate, I think this is a hot button issue in my opinion. As someone else has pointed out, the FAW have spent considerable time on galvanising good PR. It has taken a long time to rehabilitate his reputation, even with no potential legal issues hanging over him. But this issue is clearly a different kettle of fish to anything else that has been reported about his reputation up until now. I guess it depends how acrimonious this situation may become but even in a "best case scenario" (if you can even call it that), I reckon it's going to be very difficult to put this one behind them.
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Post by impeachabull on Nov 3, 2020 14:52:42 GMT
If we're recruiting early next year, I think we could be surprised by the caliber of applicants. We've got a solid squad, a guaranteed appearance at the EUROs, and a relatively favourable group
I can imagine a lot of out-of-work managers being tempted by that. Eddie Howe could be an interesting option. Worked with Brooks, Wilson, and Mepham. Has a philosophy that I think would work for us (pacey wingers, attacking full-backs, and the possession based play we've employed with Giggs).
Not Welsh, obviously but that doesn't particularly bother me.
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Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 14:54:35 GMT
I doubt that Coleman would come back though. Has he expressed any interest?
I'm also concerned we may revert to a different type of "play" which will again require an adjustment period (something we don't have!).
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Post by squatter1 on Nov 3, 2020 15:01:24 GMT
If this does come to pass, then the Welsh job will be an entirely different proposition to usual in that the new manager will be taking the team directly to the finals of a major competition.
The job will be much more attractive than it ever has - might even open the way of bringing in a manager for the tournament only, with a review afterwards.
Realistically, if FAW sticks with Welsh-only managers, the top contenders have to be:
Mark Hughes Ossian Roberts (might be able to negotiate short-term release from Morocco for the tournament? Otherwise probably too expensive right now) Steve Cooper Tony Pulis (sorry, but his name will be right up there) Chris Coleman
My money would be on Hughes or Coleman - we are going straight into a tournament, so let's just get the most experience we can.
Those who should/will not be in the frame: Bellamy (zero experience in the job) Carl Robinson (realistically his managerial career is pretty underwhelming so far and he comes across like a super-intense weirdo, no offence) Ash Williams Nathan Jones (although another good season with Luton will give him a decent shout) Deano Saunders (fucking hell no) Sam Ricketts (can see him doing it in the future if his club career progresses)
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 15:16:58 GMT
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cadno likes this
Post by jimbo82 on Nov 3, 2020 15:16:58 GMT
Is it finally time for Lars Lagerback?
Failed to qualify with Norway but vastly experienced at finals tournaments and previously worked wonders with Iceland and Sweden..
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 15:20:46 GMT
Post by walesgolfmadrid on Nov 3, 2020 15:20:46 GMT
Could some of the high profile former pro's who've done their badges with the FAW be in with a shout?
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 15:38:38 GMT
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Post by cymru888 on Nov 3, 2020 15:38:38 GMT
If it’s a minor issue can’t Giggs just pay her off (I’m sure he’s got the money spare) She drops any charges and we move on with the euros like nothing ever happened. Or can he be prosecuted regardless?
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 15:45:44 GMT
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Post by insertname on Nov 3, 2020 15:45:44 GMT
I don’t know what all these letters mean when it comes to assault. Could he have had a heated argument with his girlfriend, went to leave the house, his girlfriend tried to stop him and she fell over hurting herself when he tried pushing past her? Or would that not be an assault investigation? There is lots of ways people can hurt people with absolutely no intention, accidents can happen, obviously though there’s also plenty of ways people get hurt with intention. It's of course possible. However, the question is then if it was just an argument and a resulting accident then 1. why were the police called? It's a fair answer to then say the neighbours called them (if he lives somewhere where he has close neighbours) and 2. when the police arrived if it was just an accident surely his girlfriend would have said as much. There seems to be too much evidence for Giggs to be able to keep his job at this point. Sounds like he’s guilty already then. Might as well bang him up now based on your interpretation and save the tax payer some money on having a full trial to establish the actual facts.
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Post by superunknown on Nov 3, 2020 15:49:18 GMT
It's of course possible. However, the question is then if it was just an argument and a resulting accident then 1. why were the police called? It's a fair answer to then say the neighbours called them (if he lives somewhere where he has close neighbours) and 2. when the police arrived if it was just an accident surely his girlfriend would have said as much. There seems to be too much evidence for Giggs to be able to keep his job at this point. Sounds like he’s guilty already then. Might as well bang him up now based on your interpretation and save the tax payer some money on having a full trial to establish the actual facts. Just giving my opinion on what it looks like has happened. No where did I say they shouldn’t have a trial, should immediately sack him or that he’s guilty. But go off on one mate if it makes you feel better.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 15:53:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by insertname on Nov 3, 2020 15:53:14 GMT
It is an important thing to stress,arrest is not as big a deal, as people not involved in the criminal justice system think,let me re phrase of course it's important ,it's a power to restrict liberty,what I mean is ,if not charged it has no bearing on your future ,except in the court of public opinion. When you’re in the public eye then the court of public opinion is the most important. And look how the court of public opinion treats people. Caroline Flack was considered a victim of domestic violence by the public whereas Giggs has already been banged up and the key thrown away. We are always throwing the baby out with the bath water in this country when it comes to justice, especially with regard to men. If we truly believe in innocent until proven guilty then Giggs should be able to continue until he is found guilty. It’s not like his core work involves working with women, children or other vulnerable people.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 15:54:58 GMT
Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 15:54:58 GMT
If it’s a minor issue can’t Giggs just pay her off (I’m sure he’s got the money spare) She drops any charges and we move on with the euros like nothing ever happened. Or can he be prosecuted regardless? If they have the evidence and they deem it to be in the public interest, they could theoretically still pursue a prosecution regardless.
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Post by insertname on Nov 3, 2020 15:55:41 GMT
Sounds like he’s guilty already then. Might as well bang him up now based on your interpretation and save the tax payer some money on having a full trial to establish the actual facts. Just giving my opinion on what it looks like has happened. No where did I say they shouldn’t have a trial, should immediately sack him or that he’s guilty. But go off on one mate if it makes you feel better. You said there was too much evidence for him to keep his job based on what you’ve read in a tabloid! And yes, I will go off on one, someone has to stand up for the principle of innocent until proven guilty which seems to have been eroded in the minds of the public leading to your comment about there being too much evidence because of something you read.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 15:56:58 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 3, 2020 15:56:58 GMT
I feel Osian would ditch everything to take the job if he could. Would he really be any more expensive than a salary someone like Coleman would request? Ultimately, I think Osian would still be a bit of a gamble, and it sounded like the FAW were more impressed with Bellamy than Osian after the past interview process. I think it's unlikely it'll be him. Also, I can't really see the rationale for Osian over Coleman
Hughes is the only other experienced candidate I hadn't really considered that would possibly be an option. He did a great job in 2004 and as his club management career has tailed off perhaps he would be best suited to international management nowadays. I think he's the next best option after Coleman
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 16:01:15 GMT
iot likes this
Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 16:01:15 GMT
When you’re in the public eye then the court of public opinion is the most important. And look how the court of public opinion treats people. Caroline Flack was considered a victim of domestic violence by the public whereas Giggs has already been banged up and the key thrown away. We are always throwing the baby out with the bath water in this country when it comes to justice, especially with regard to men. If we truly believe in innocent until proven guilty then Giggs should be able to continue until he is found guilty. It’s not like his core work involves working with women, children or other vulnerable people. Er, not to be pedantic, but Caroline Flack was not considered to be a victim of domestic violence. She was being prosecuted for alleged offences relating to it. The burden of proof in civil and disciplinary matters is not the same as those in criminal proceedings. You can be disciplined - or sacked - by your employer even if you are found to have committed no crime. If you are found to have engaged in any conduct that brings your employment or employer's business into disrepute, they have the right to sack you, if such conduct is prohibited by the terms of your contract. I am NOT saying that this situation should apply to Giggs, just pointing out that he doesn't necessarily need to be found guilty in a court of law to be sacked from his employment.
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Post by superunknown on Nov 3, 2020 16:03:21 GMT
Just giving my opinion on what it looks like has happened. No where did I say they shouldn’t have a trial, should immediately sack him or that he’s guilty. But go off on one mate if it makes you feel better. You said there was too much evidence for him to keep his job based on what you’ve read in a tabloid! And yes, I will go off on one, someone has to stand up for the principle of innocent until proven guilty which seems to have been eroded in the minds of the public leading to your comment about there being too much evidence because of something you read. Wasn’t read in a tabloid but thank you for assuming what I’ve read. And it’s my opinion that there seems to be too much evidence pointing towards Giggs assaulting his girlfriend whereby he keeps his job. This is still my opinion. Just in case you didn’t realise, I’m not a court of law or at the FAW so shockingly, my opinion doesn’t mean much and there is in fact still going to be a trial. As a citizen of a democracy I’m actually allowed to form an opinion based on things I’ve read, mental I know!! And it’s completely wrong that he should be allowed to be in charge for these 3 games just because he’s “innocent until proven guilty” but whatever.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 16:08:55 GMT
Post by pendragon on Nov 3, 2020 16:08:55 GMT
I recall reading that Mark Hughes won't consider a return to the Wales set-up. Not sure if that's still the case though.
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Giggs
Nov 3, 2020 16:09:21 GMT
Post by talyfan on Nov 3, 2020 16:09:21 GMT
Mark Bowen - did well at his time at Reading and obviously long term assistant to Mark Hughes. Just another throwing that out there.
I'd give it Coleman personally and I think there'd be scope to extend beyond the EUROS as we really don't have that much going for us in terms of the pool of managers/coaches we have available.
The other one that came to my head was Adam Owen who was involved with Coleman during his tenure, managed Lechia Gdansk. Well regarded coach and familiar with the set up, only 40 so still a young but he's been at it for years.
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