Giggs

[iwlos]

Being charged is not the same as being guilty, I say this as my family and myself have first hand experience of being charged and being found not guilty. The judge threw the case out of court in 5 minutes while tearing into North Wales Police, who picked and choose what was evidence and what wasn't before submitting to the CPS. That shambles of a force still do that to this day which is rather worrying, as I've found out very recently.

Some jumping the gun as usual.

[insertname]

Apr 23, 2021 16:06:13 GMT georgetm1 said:

I would say unbelievable, but it isn't. This vindicates all the fans who were against his appointment. Shitting on his own brother, cheating on his wife and family, his behaviour towards our national team and the FAW still bent over backwards for him. Now he is a woman beater and made her life a misery. What next?

The FAW really got this appointment wrong and they should have listened to everyone else.

He’s been found guilty already? That’s impressive considering his trial isn’t until May

[insertname]

Apr 23, 2021 16:09:26 GMT iwlos said:

Being charged is not the same as being guilty, I say this as my family and myself have first hand experience of being charged and being found not guilty. The judge threw the case out of court in 5 minutes while tearing into North Wales Police, who picked and choose what was evidence and what wasn't before submitting to the CPS. That shambles of a force still do that to this day which is rather worrying, as I've found out very recently.

Some jumping the gun as usual.

Exactly, you’d think people would have learnt from the Ched Evans case wouldn’t you?

I’ve far too many friends to mention who have been accused of all sorts by women and later fully exonerated by the legal system. So much so that when I hear of the likes of Giggs being accused of it I roll my eyes and think “wake me up when he’s actually found guilty”.

[iwlos]

Apr 23, 2021 16:26:06 GMT insertname said:

Apr 23, 2021 16:09:26 GMT iwlos said:

Being charged is not the same as being guilty, I say this as my family and myself have first hand experience of being charged and being found not guilty. The judge threw the case out of court in 5 minutes while tearing into North Wales Police, who picked and choose what was evidence and what wasn't before submitting to the CPS. That shambles of a force still do that to this day which is rather worrying, as I've found out very recently.

Some jumping the gun as usual.

Exactly, you’d think people would have learnt from the Ched Evans case wouldn’t you?

I’ve far too many friends to mention who have been accused of all sorts by women and later fully exonerated by the legal system. So much so that when I hear of the likes of Giggs being accused of it I roll my eyes and think “wake me up when he’s actually found guilty”.

North Wales Police did the same to him by omitting evidence if I recall correctly.

My experience doesn't involve women, just a neighbour from hell who's terrorised a community for 50 years. When the heat gets turned up on him, up he pops with allegations and payed for 'witness's'.

[georgetm1]

Apr 23, 2021 16:09:26 GMT iwlos said:

Being charged is not the same as being guilty, I say this as my family and myself have first hand experience of being charged and being found not guilty. The judge threw the case out of court in 5 minutes while tearing into North Wales Police, who picked and choose what was evidence and what wasn't before submitting to the CPS. That shambles of a force still do that to this day which is rather worrying, as I've found out very recently.

Some jumping the gun as usual.

I did jump the gun, but his past behaviour makes him look like a piece of shit that would do this kind of stuff so people will pre-judge.

Remember though, this is two woman making these accusations.

[iwlos]

Apr 23, 2021 16:44:53 GMT georgetm1 said:

Apr 23, 2021 16:09:26 GMT iwlos said:

Being charged is not the same as being guilty, I say this as my family and myself have first hand experience of being charged and being found not guilty. The judge threw the case out of court in 5 minutes while tearing into North Wales Police, who picked and choose what was evidence and what wasn't before submitting to the CPS. That shambles of a force still do that to this day which is rather worrying, as I've found out very recently.

Some jumping the gun as usual.

I did jump the gun, but his past behaviour makes him look like a piece of shit that would do this kind of stuff so people will pre-judge.

Remember though, this is two woman making these accusations.

Remember you could get 5 years inside regardless of what somebody did in the past, by jumping the gun. You're not the only one however.

[insertname]

Apr 23, 2021 16:44:53 GMT georgetm1 said:

Apr 23, 2021 16:09:26 GMT iwlos said:

Being charged is not the same as being guilty, I say this as my family and myself have first hand experience of being charged and being found not guilty. The judge threw the case out of court in 5 minutes while tearing into North Wales Police, who picked and choose what was evidence and what wasn't before submitting to the CPS. That shambles of a force still do that to this day which is rather worrying, as I've found out very recently.

Some jumping the gun as usual.

I did jump the gun, but his past behaviour makes him look like a piece of shit that would do this kind of stuff so people will pre-judge.

Remember though, this is two woman making these accusations.

There’s a big difference between having an affair with your brother’s wife and physical violence

[insertname]

Apr 23, 2021 16:36:24 GMT iwlos said:

Apr 23, 2021 16:26:06 GMT insertname said:

Exactly, you’d think people would have learnt from the Ched Evans case wouldn’t you?

I’ve far too many friends to mention who have been accused of all sorts by women and later fully exonerated by the legal system. So much so that when I hear of the likes of Giggs being accused of it I roll my eyes and think “wake me up when he’s actually found guilty”.

North Wales Police did the same to him by omitting evidence if I recall correctly.

My experience doesn't involve women, just a neighbour from hell who's terrorised a community for 50 years. When the heat gets turned up on him, up he pops with allegations and payed for 'witness's'.

The met police were found recently to be withholding text message evidence that could help to exonerate defendants of rape allegations thus calling thousands of prosecutions into doubt. It’s so depressing how the law is being manipulated by those who are in control of serving it. I guess it all comes down to the pressure of convicting people, even innocent people, just to boost conviction stats. It’s disgusting how anyone can justify to themselves with holding evidence that could be make or break for an innocent person.

[dai]

Regardless if he's guilty or innocent, he should step down or be sacked purely for bringing Welsh football into disrepute. Can you honestly imagine the English FA clinging on to Southgate if he was accused of something similar?

My gut instinct, taking his past history in mind, is that he most certainly has done something.

[cogancoronation31]

He's innocent unless and until a Court finds him guilty.

However, his attempt to clear his name is obviously a distraction for him and for Welsh football - and carries a shadow over the national team's involvement in the Euros and (bearing in mind how these cases can drag out over months) the autumn WC qualifiers too.

That being the case, Ryan and the FAW's best shout is for there to be a parting of the ways at this point - but scope for him to return in the future if he is found not guilty at the end of the legal process.

[welshrover]

If Giggs can come back why not Ched?

[holmesdaleultra]

Apr 23, 2021 18:53:13 GMT cogancoronation31 said:

He's innocent unless and until a Court finds him guilty.

However, his attempt to clear his name is obviously a distraction for him and for Welsh football - and carries a shadow over the national team's involvement in the Euros and (bearing in mind how these cases can drag out over months) the autumn WC qualifiers too.

That being the case, Ryan and the FAW's best shout is for there to be a parting of the ways at this point - but scope for him to return in the future if he is found not guilty at the end of the legal process.

Agree innocent until proven guilty...

I wonder if the Ryan haters will apologise on here if he is found not guilty.

[allezlesrouges]

I couldn't give a monkeys if he's innocent or not, it's not the main problem here, he needs to go regardless

If he's "proven" innocent do you honestly think this story just goes away? No, it follows him & Wales around long after the court decision

If he had a squeaky clean past I think he would have the benefit of the doubt from most fans. Given his previous incidents he needed to not make any errors as Wales manager, and even getting himself into this situation is an error. There's clearly enough evidence against him for this to get to this stage, and for it not to be immediately thrown out

[iwlos]

Apr 23, 2021 20:39:37 GMT allezlesrouges said:

I couldn't give a monkeys if he's innocent or not, it's not the main problem here, he needs to go regardless

If he's "proven" innocent do you honestly think this story just goes away? No, it follows him & Wales around long after the court decision

If he had a squeaky clean past I think he would have the benefit of the doubt from most fans. Given his previous incidents he needed to not make any errors as Wales manager, and even getting himself into this situation is an error. There's clearly enough evidence against him for this to get to this stage, and for it not to be immediately thrown out

Another acting as judge, jury and executioner.

Is that evidence factual or made up? Has anything been omitted? Have all witnesses had statements taken? That's another favourite of the Police, picking and choosing who's a witness.

You've clearly seen the file.

It'll only follow him around if he's innocent due to the prejudice you're showing, food for thought.

[gwernybwch]

Apr 23, 2021 19:42:10 GMT holmesdaleultra said:

Apr 23, 2021 18:53:13 GMT cogancoronation31 said:

He's innocent unless and until a Court finds him guilty.

However, his attempt to clear his name is obviously a distraction for him and for Welsh football - and carries a shadow over the national team's involvement in the Euros and (bearing in mind how these cases can drag out over months) the autumn WC qualifiers too.

That being the case, Ryan and the FAW's best shout is for there to be a parting of the ways at this point - but scope for him to return in the future if he is found not guilty at the end of the legal process.

Agree innocent until proven guilty...

I wonder if the Ryan haters will apologise on here if he is found not guilty.

I for one won't be apologising IF he gets acquitted.

His gardening leave has already cost the FAW £150k+ and it will cost thousands more in lost sponsors. Although I don't blame him. When the FAW appointed him, they knew that they were employing someone who thinks with their dick.



If there is one good thing to come out of this is that it begs the question how much of our current success was due to the part-timer in the first place. Him being absent doesn't seem to have affected our results, so how much of our success was down to him in the first place?

[georgetm1]

Apr 23, 2021 19:42:10 GMT holmesdaleultra said:

Apr 23, 2021 18:53:13 GMT cogancoronation31 said:

He's innocent unless and until a Court finds him guilty.

However, his attempt to clear his name is obviously a distraction for him and for Welsh football - and carries a shadow over the national team's involvement in the Euros and (bearing in mind how these cases can drag out over months) the autumn WC qualifiers too.

That being the case, Ryan and the FAW's best shout is for there to be a parting of the ways at this point - but scope for him to return in the future if he is found not guilty at the end of the legal process.

Agree innocent until proven guilty...

I wonder if the Ryan haters will apologise on here if he is found not guilty.

Will you apologise on here if he is guilty then?

[insertname]

Apr 23, 2021 21:21:35 GMT gwernybwch said:

Apr 23, 2021 19:42:10 GMT holmesdaleultra said:

Agree innocent until proven guilty...

I wonder if the Ryan haters will apologise on here if he is found not guilty.

I for one won't be apologising IF he gets acquitted.

His gardening leave has already cost the FAW £150k+ and it will cost thousands more in lost sponsors. Although I don't blame him. When the FAW appointed him, they knew that they were employing someone who thinks with their dick.



If there is one good thing to come out of this is that it begs the question how much of our current success was due to the part-timer in the first place. Him being absent doesn't seem to have affected our results, so how much of our success was down to him in the first place?

Do you want to go back to days of the World Cup qualifiers before Giggs rocked up, drawing with the likes of Georgia? I don’t.

[allezlesrouges]

Apr 23, 2021 21:19:30 GMT iwlos said:

Apr 23, 2021 20:39:37 GMT allezlesrouges said:

I couldn't give a monkeys if he's innocent or not, it's not the main problem here, he needs to go regardless

If he's "proven" innocent do you honestly think this story just goes away? No, it follows him & Wales around long after the court decision

If he had a squeaky clean past I think he would have the benefit of the doubt from most fans. Given his previous incidents he needed to not make any errors as Wales manager, and even getting himself into this situation is an error. There's clearly enough evidence against him for this to get to this stage, and for it not to be immediately thrown out

Another acting as judge, jury and executioner.

Is that evidence factual or made up? Has anything been omitted? Have all witnesses had statements taken? That's another favourite of the Police, picking and choosing who's a witness.

You've clearly seen the file.

It'll only follow him around if he's innocent due to the prejudice you're showing, food for thought.

How have I acted as judge, jury & executioner? My entire point is that I don't care if he's innocent or not. I honestly don't know or care whether he actually did it. The situation is detrimental to our reputation as a footballing nation and a
our nation as a whole

At the moment people are looking in from the outside thinking "oh the guy who shagged his brother's wife for years is being accused of assault & coercion - what a surprise". I know this because all my colleagues, friends and family who have heard the news today have all said the same thing "why hasn't he been sacked?". They are just casuals looking in and all their opinions seem to converge on this. Perception is key to institutions such as the FAW. I think it would be bonkers to allow our reputation to be dragged on the off-chance that he didn't do it

Furthermore, my view isn't prejudice, it's post-judice based on what he has been found guilty of in the past. He's a liar, cheater & a bad person - that much is known. Because of that am I keen for the reputation of Wales to be tarnished to give someone like that the benefit of the doubt? No. Why is Giggs himself okay with dragging this out if he really cares about our country? I wouldn't be

[iantov]

Apr 23, 2021 21:21:35 GMT gwernybwch said:

Apr 23, 2021 19:42:10 GMT holmesdaleultra said:

Agree innocent until proven guilty...

I wonder if the Ryan haters will apologise on here if he is found not guilty.

I for one won't be apologising IF he gets acquitted.

His gardening leave has already cost the FAW £150k+ and it will cost thousands more in lost sponsors. Although I don't blame him. When the FAW appointed him, they knew that they were employing someone who thinks with their dick.



If there is one good thing to come out of this is that it begs the question how much of our current success was due to the part-timer in the first place. Him being absent doesn't seem to have affected our results, so how much of our success was down to him in the first place?

Apple continues to be successful even after Steve Jobs' unfortunate demise as an example. The same principal can be applied to Giggs and his team, his blueprint with background staff that bought into his way, believed in it and continue to take it forward. Much of our on-field success can be attributed to Giggs in my opinion regardless of what we think of him as a man.

[iwlos]

Apr 23, 2021 21:57:47 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Apr 23, 2021 21:19:30 GMT iwlos said:

Another acting as judge, jury and executioner.

Is that evidence factual or made up? Has anything been omitted? Have all witnesses had statements taken? That's another favourite of the Police, picking and choosing who's a witness.

You've clearly seen the file.

It'll only follow him around if he's innocent due to the prejudice you're showing, food for thought.

How have I acted as judge, jury & executioner? My entire point is that I don't care if he's innocent or not. I honestly don't know or care whether he actually did it. The situation is detrimental to our reputation as a footballing nation and a
our nation as a whole

At the moment people are looking in from the outside thinking "oh the guy who shagged his brother's wife for years is being accused of assault & coercion - what a surprise". I know this because all my colleagues, friends and family who have heard the news today have all said the same thing "why hasn't he been sacked?". They are just casuals looking in and all their opinions seem to converge on this. Perception is key to institutions such as the FAW. I think it would be bonkers to allow our reputation to be dragged on the off-chance that he didn't do it

Furthermore, my view isn't prejudice, it's post-judice based on what he has been found guilty of in the past. He's a liar, cheater & a bad person - that much is known. Because of that am I keen for the reputation of Wales to be tarnished to give someone like that the benefit of the doubt? No. Why is Giggs himself okay with dragging this out if he really cares about our country? I wouldn't be

Perhaps you should stop worrying about what others think, with their prejudiced views.

If you were accused of assault and someone dragged up you slapped someone when you were younger and therefore should walk or be sacked. I'm sure you'd do exactly that.

I find it hard to believe.

[iwlos]

Coercive behaviour dates from December 2017, when they both are said to have started dating.

Interesting detail that.

[robin1864]

It's not looking great for him. If they've taken this long to charge him, chances are they have all the evidence they need to convict him.

[erasedcitizen]

Apr 23, 2021 20:39:37 GMT allezlesrouges said:

I couldn't give a monkeys if he's innocent or not, it's not the main problem here, he needs to go regardless

If he's "proven" innocent do you honestly think this story just goes away? No, it follows him & Wales around long after the court decision

If he had a squeaky clean past I think he would have the benefit of the doubt from most fans. Given his previous incidents he needed to not make any errors as Wales manager, and even getting himself into this situation is an error. There's clearly enough evidence against him for this to get to this stage, and for it not to be immediately thrown out

I suspect we cannot afford to pay him off, and risk him filing for unfair dismissal if we sack him without pay in the event he's found not guilty. What a mess.

We just have to hope he resigns, but is that realistic? The man doesn't exactly have the best moral compass so if he is guilty I doubt he'd sacrifice his payday, and if he's not guilty, he'll question why he should give up his pay.

[gwernybwch]

Apr 24, 2021 5:31:54 GMT iantov said:

Apr 23, 2021 21:21:35 GMT gwernybwch said:

I for one won't be apologising IF he gets acquitted.

His gardening leave has already cost the FAW £150k+ and it will cost thousands more in lost sponsors. Although I don't blame him. When the FAW appointed him, they knew that they were employing someone who thinks with their dick.



If there is one good thing to come out of this is that it begs the question how much of our current success was due to the part-timer in the first place. Him being absent doesn't seem to have affected our results, so how much of our success was down to him in the first place?

Apple continues to be successful even after Steve Jobs' unfortunate demise as an example. The same principal can be applied to Giggs and his team, his blueprint with background staff that bought into his way, believed in it and continue to take it forward. Much of our on-field success can be attributed to Giggs in my opinion regardless of what we think of him as a man.

In the Apple analogy Giggs isn't the Steve Jobs. Far from it, Giggs is the guy, several guys further on from Jobs that inherits a well run company. Giggs didn't lay the foundation for a well run organisation; Toshack, Flynn, Osian and Ford all did that. He inherited a team consisting of Bale, Allen, Davies and Hennessey and system that was producing the likes of Amapdu, Brooks, James, Roberts, Mepham. An organisation that was constantly looking for the likes of Moore.

Maybe Giggs legacy will be that he surrounded himself by good people - Albert, Page - which allowed the welsh national football team to continue to flourish.

[squatter1]

Giggs has to say: "I am innocent, and will prove so in court. But until that happens I am putting my country first and stepping down from the Wales manager job so as not to distract from preparations for the European Championships."

Anything else is putting self before nation, because he has to accept that right now he stinks to high heaven, and that stink is befouling, Wales, Welsh football, and the team's preparations for the Euros.

PS I think the guy is a snake with no moral compass, and to get yourself into the position where two women are willing to testify in court that you assaulted them, and with enough evidence for the police to believe it worth prosecuting, on top of the fact you shagged your brothers wife for years behind his back, you are almost certainly a total cunt. And what I imagine we will see in court - whether or not he's found guilty of the actual crimes - are the details to back up the conviction that he is a total cunt.

Much like Ched Evans. He was ultimately found not guilty of the crime of rape. But the details disclosed of what he did revealed he was guilty of being a total cunt. Hence he's been nowhere near the Wales team ever since, and never again should be.

[iwlos]

Apr 24, 2021 7:41:53 GMT robin1864 said:

It's not looking great for him. If they've taken this long to charge him, chances are they have all the evidence they need to convict him.

It suggests the latter, 1st May was the cut off point to charge. Doesn't sound like a clear cut case, we'll see.

[allezlesrouges]

Apr 24, 2021 7:16:02 GMT iwlos said:

Apr 23, 2021 21:57:47 GMT allezlesrouges said:

How have I acted as judge, jury & executioner? My entire point is that I don't care if he's innocent or not. I honestly don't know or care whether he actually did it. The situation is detrimental to our reputation as a footballing nation and a
our nation as a whole

At the moment people are looking in from the outside thinking "oh the guy who shagged his brother's wife for years is being accused of assault & coercion - what a surprise". I know this because all my colleagues, friends and family who have heard the news today have all said the same thing "why hasn't he been sacked?". They are just casuals looking in and all their opinions seem to converge on this. Perception is key to institutions such as the FAW. I think it would be bonkers to allow our reputation to be dragged on the off-chance that he didn't do it

Furthermore, my view isn't prejudice, it's post-judice based on what he has been found guilty of in the past. He's a liar, cheater & a bad person - that much is known. Because of that am I keen for the reputation of Wales to be tarnished to give someone like that the benefit of the doubt? No. Why is Giggs himself okay with dragging this out if he really cares about our country? I wouldn't be

Perhaps you should stop worrying about what others think, with their prejudiced views.

If you were accused of assault and someone dragged up you slapped someone when you were younger and therefore should walk or be sacked. I'm sure you'd do exactly that.

I find it hard to believe.

I don't worry about what others think. Again I think you're missing the point. My point is what other people's perception is regardless of a guilty verdict. Believe me, the FAW cares what people think, they've done a hell of a lot to build their reputation over these recent years

If my position was as a leader in an organisation that was in the spotlight and this was affecting how the organisation was being seen, and I already had low public trust, then I would yes

[welshiron]

Giggs must go NOW.

If he doesn't step down then simply sack him

No ifs or buts

[iwlos]

Apr 24, 2021 8:42:55 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Apr 24, 2021 7:16:02 GMT iwlos said:

Perhaps you should stop worrying about what others think, with their prejudiced views.

If you were accused of assault and someone dragged up you slapped someone when you were younger and therefore should walk or be sacked. I'm sure you'd do exactly that.

I find it hard to believe.

I don't worry about what others think. Again I think you're missing the point. My point is what other people's perception is regardless of a guilty verdict. Believe me, the FAW cares what people think, they've done a hell of a lot to build their reputation over these recent years

If my position was as a leader in an organisation that was in the spotlight and this was affecting how the organisation was being seen, and I already had low public trust, then I would yes

You clearly do otherwise you wouldn't be so concerned.

If he's guilty we all know he goes and will accept that, if not guilty I don't see why he needs to stand do due to the prejudices of others. I've seen many a life ruined due to the prejudice of 'well he must have done something' because he had a day out in court. People lie and do it well, using manipulation and all sorts, those people get off the hook though.

Stepping down could also be seen as an admission of guilt. We also don't know what Giggs has told the FAW or the events leading up to the incident which is important.

The FAW have acted correctly throughout, to most importantly protect themselves.

[aberbeeg]

No doubt Giggs would have paid the best lawyers to clear his name.The fact he’s still been charged shows they must have “something” on him.

Either way most decent people would have completely stepped away from their National team particularly with a major tournament weeks away.

Sadly Giggs certainly doesn’t seem like a decent type.