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Post by saturn9 on Mar 11, 2022 17:19:52 GMT
Cabango seems to be going backwards this season. There was a point, little over a year ago, that I really thought that Rodon and Cabango would be in the centre of the Wales defence for the next ten years. Without Cooper I don't think Cabango has looked half as good from what I've seen this season and of course we all know what is or isn't going on with Rodon's career, Lockyer could really capitalise on this, in a Wales shirt he's never really let anyone down. Still don't think Martin rates him. He stupidity chose Williams R over BC last year, that could possibly have affected his mindset. |
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Post by saturn9 on Mar 11, 2022 17:20:25 GMT
Cabango seems to be going backwards this season. There was a point, little over a year ago, that I really thought that Rodon and Cabango would be in the centre of the Wales defence for the next ten years. Without Cooper I don't think Cabango has looked half as good from what I've seen this season and of course we all know what is or isn't going on with Rodon's career, Lockyer could really capitalise on this, in a Wales shirt he's never really let anyone down. Still don't think Martin rates him. He stupiditly chose Williams R over BC last year, that could possibly have affected his mindset. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 11, 2022 18:00:26 GMT
Only just clocked that Luton are up in the top 6 in the Championship. Lockyer always seems like the forgotten man - but could he be a Premier League defender next season? From what I've seen there's not much between him, Mepham and Cabango. Mepham is better on the ball though, and seems like a more modern type of player, whereas Lockyer seems like a more old fashioned centre half - nothing with wrong with that. Only forgotten in the sense that no one really talks about him or ever clamours for him to start/be in the squad. Just looking on here his thread is only 6 pages long in comparison to Cabango's 9 page thread. This is despite Lockyer being 6 years older and having played for us 11 more times, and having played nearly 300 more professional games than Cabango in total |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 11, 2022 18:02:57 GMT
Lockyer has never let Wales down and has often been unfairly maligned, I'd be happy to see him start against Austria I must say I've never really got the hype around Cabango & Cooper, Mepham & Lockyer the better players for me For me I think he may well be ahead of Rodon for that central position in the back 3. Rodon hasn't played in ages whilst Lockyer has been consistently playing in that very position at the top end of the Championship this season It wouldn't be a popular decision with fans I'm sure, but I think it's the right decision |
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Post by welwyn on Mar 12, 2022 9:24:44 GMT
Is he a forgotten man?? Giggs and Page have picked him quite regularly, and he's always put in a shift for us, and played quite well. From what I've seen there's not much between him, Mepham and Cabango. Mepham is better on the ball though, and seems like a more modern type of player, whereas Lockyer seems like a more old fashioned centre half - nothing with wrong with that. Forgotten I guess in the sense that he was omitted from the Euros squad despite those videos of him training like a dog in an effort to be fit for the finals. Although I thought he had disappeared after that but he was actually involved against Finland according to the stats. Maybe not quite as forgotten as I thought! I saw him score and set one up against Bristol City the other week but then Luton were all at sea defensively for their consolation goal. Guess we need to ask Welwyn whether that’s indicative of his defending throughout the season…. There has definitely been a move by NJ to taking a lot of Val Ismael's principles in the summer, which puts a lot of pressure on the back three (even if it isn't pure 'Val-ball'). This can lead to times when things completely fall apart. That City game was one, any time we play against Lee Bowyer also counts. But we are not bad overall. Lock's himself is probably 2nd choice RCB behind Burke purely because NJ likes the outside CB's to be very forward thinking and Burke is better at overlapping than him. Bradley is a foot taller and club captain but has been out for a while, hence why Locks has been in the middle of the back three. Whether Locks or Gaby Osho have been the choice there is probably being made on a game by game basis on whether NJ wants Lock's nounce or Osho's extra pace. He has become a bit of a fans favourite too, particularly as he has very much lined himself up as the long-term replacement for Danny Hylton as the club's 'King S***house'. Only just clocked that Luton are up in the top 6 in the Championship. Lockyer always seems like the forgotten man - but could he be a Premier League defender next season? I would still give us about a 5% of just making the play-offs, which even that is incredible given the budget constraints. Mainly because we have been a injury ravaged mess for weeks. Despite this, there are things happening right now that literally defy all footballing logic and are taking on a momentum all of there own. For example, we went to Stoke a couple of weeks ago having literally run out of midfielders. We had four of our five out, meaning the aforementioned Osho played as one of the deeper two. As for the attacking one, NJ ended up playing Danny Hylton (a striker who had never played there in his life) there, presumably because NJ thought his aforementioned S***house qualities would make him the best option just to harry Joe Allen all game. Somehow it worked, we stopped Allen and were in control of the game for 90 minutes. (The fact that we force Allen to get involved in a battle like that and couldn't find space, yet THAT being the first time I saw Stoke fans praising Allen says more about them than anything else!) Heck, even against Coventry on Tuesday, half of our coaching staff had Covid, so there is a reasonable chance half of our players will now have it by tomorrow lunchtime for the QPR game (which makes sense given that we have won just one of 21 meetings with them in the last 34 years!). As a result of those injures, despite good results, we haven't played well since that Stoke game. If somehow we made the playoffs and guaranteed me a fully-fit Kal Naismith at LCB, Allan Campbell in midfield and Elijah Adebayo up front, then I really think we would be a match for anyone in them. The likelihood of that however, given that Kal is injured, Campbell is a combative midfielder who is consistently getting injured and we are currently playing Elijah despite him basically being on one-leg, is probably about as low as that 5% chance of us making them in the first place. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 12, 2022 13:31:52 GMT
Forgotten I guess in the sense that he was omitted from the Euros squad despite those videos of him training like a dog in an effort to be fit for the finals. Although I thought he had disappeared after that but he was actually involved against Finland according to the stats. Maybe not quite as forgotten as I thought! I saw him score and set one up against Bristol City the other week but then Luton were all at sea defensively for their consolation goal. Guess we need to ask Welwyn whether that’s indicative of his defending throughout the season…. There has definitely been a move by NJ to taking a lot of Val Ismael's principles in the summer, which puts a lot of pressure on the back three (even if it isn't pure 'Val-ball'). This can lead to times when things completely fall apart. That City game was one, any time we play against Lee Bowyer also counts. But we are not bad overall. Lock's himself is probably 2nd choice RCB behind Burke purely because NJ likes the outside CB's to be very forward thinking and Burke is better at overlapping than him. Bradley is a foot taller and club captain but has been out for a while, hence why Locks has been in the middle of the back three. Whether Locks or Gaby Osho have been the choice there is probably being made on a game by game basis on whether NJ wants Lock's nounce or Osho's extra pace. He has become a bit of a fans favourite too, particularly as he has very much lined himself up as the long-term replacement for Danny Hylton as the club's 'King S***house'. Only just clocked that Luton are up in the top 6 in the Championship. Lockyer always seems like the forgotten man - but could he be a Premier League defender next season? I would still give us about a 5% of just making the play-offs, which even that is incredible given the budget constraints. Mainly because we have been a injury ravaged mess for weeks. Despite this, there are things happening right now that literally defy all footballing logic and are taking on a momentum all of there own. For example, we went to Stoke a couple of weeks ago having literally run out of midfielders. We had four of our five out, meaning the aforementioned Osho played as one of the deeper two. As for the attacking one, NJ ended up playing Danny Hylton (a striker who had never played there in his life) there, presumably because NJ thought his aforementioned S***house qualities would make him the best option just to harry Joe Allen all game. Somehow it worked, we stopped Allen and were in control of the game for 90 minutes. (The fact that we force Allen to get involved in a battle like that and couldn't find space, yet THAT being the first time I saw Stoke fans praising Allen says more about them than anything else!) Heck, even against Coventry on Tuesday, half of our coaching staff had Covid, so there is a reasonable chance half of our players will now have it by tomorrow lunchtime for the QPR game (which makes sense given that we have won just one of 21 meetings with them in the last 34 years!). As a result of those injures, despite good results, we haven't played well since that Stoke game. If somehow we made the playoffs and guaranteed me a fully-fit Kal Naismith at LCB, Allan Campbell in midfield and Elijah Adebayo up front, then I really think we would be a match for anyone in them. The likelihood of that however, given that Kal is injured, Campbell is a combative midfielder who is consistently getting injured and we are currently playing Elijah despite him basically being on one-leg, is probably about as low as that 5% chance of us making them in the first place. Interesting- I remember that City goal because it was so odd seeing nobody in the centre of the defence and the City player having the freedom of the pitch as soon as the pass was made to go through on goal. You just don’t see stuff like that at that level so you’ve described it well when you say that it falls apart! Haha yeah I’ve heard about Danny Hylton- Bristol Rovers have been after him off and on over the years and his ‘temperament’ has been mentioned 😂 |
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Post by welwyn on Mar 17, 2022 15:15:28 GMT
No Tom Lockyer last night so might have been out.
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Post by welshowl on Sept 30, 2022 23:05:54 GMT
Wonder whether Page is paying any attention to Tom Lockyer? Started a few games now in centre of Luton defence, last two games being 2-0 victories which have taken them up to top 6 overnight in the Championship. Playing in a team in form is a good place to be. Cabango did alright though vs Poland so Lockyer will probably still miss out.
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Post by bobbyghoul on Oct 1, 2022 6:47:46 GMT
Wonder whether Page is paying any attention to Tom Lockyer? Started a few games now in centre of Luton defence, last two games being 2-0 victories which have taken them up to top 6 overnight in the Championship. Playing in a team in form is a good place to be. Cabango did alright though vs Poland so Lockyer will probably still miss out.
Nah, Page would rather take Gunter because he's a good laugh and is Rambo's bezzie mate. |
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Post by pclaude on Oct 1, 2022 13:19:13 GMT
Wonder whether Page is paying any attention to Tom Lockyer? Started a few games now in centre of Luton defence, last two games being 2-0 victories which have taken them up to top 6 overnight in the Championship. Playing in a team in form is a good place to be. Cabango did alright though vs Poland so Lockyer will probably still miss out.
Nah, Page would rather take Gunter because he's a good laugh and is Rambo's bezzie mate. I think Gunter might be the victim of Cabango’s performance against Poland. I don’t see a place for him now. Unless Ampadu is seen purely as midfield (possible). And barring injuries I don’t see Matt Smith or Tyler Roberts going. |
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Post by insertname on Oct 1, 2022 15:11:24 GMT
Wonder whether Page is paying any attention to Tom Lockyer? Started a few games now in centre of Luton defence, last two games being 2-0 victories which have taken them up to top 6 overnight in the Championship. Playing in a team in form is a good place to be. Cabango did alright though vs Poland so Lockyer will probably still miss out.
Possibly too early for the World Cup, as we all know how loyal Page is but if Lockyer is still playing for Luton and they are doing well in March then he should brought in. Again it’s hard not to look at Lockyer’s age and wonder if it will count against him under Page. A player playing well at the upper end of the championship should be involved no matter what. If someone like Cabango is ahead of him then it does make me scratch my head a bit. |
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Post by jimexotic on Oct 2, 2022 15:54:38 GMT
The way I see it, if a defender has had a serious and/or constant niggly injury free career then 28-34 are their prime years, especially centre backs.
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Post by welwyn on Oct 10, 2022 12:20:30 GMT
Our very direct style of play probably doesn't help. Our back 3 is very much get it, hoof it in the general direction of our front two.
Obviously slightly more nuanced than that (think Barnsley under Ismael), but it certainly means ball playing skills isn't number one consideration on our CB shopping list. It was a really good watch last year when you had Kal and Burke playing the outside CB positions (both who are willing to progress the ball themselves in different ways). Losing Kal to B.City and Burke spending time out injured can show us up as a very 'hoof-ball' side and Locks job has never been to do more than 'hit the front two' with the ball.
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Post by insertname on Oct 10, 2022 12:35:01 GMT
Our very direct style of play probably doesn't help. Our back 3 is very much get it, hoof it in the general direction of our front two. Obviously slightly more nuanced than that (think Barnsley under Ismael), but it certainly means ball playing skills isn't number one consideration on our CB shopping list. It was a really good watch last year when you had Kal and Burke playing the outside CB positions (both who are willing to progress the ball themselves in different ways). Losing Kal to B.City and Burke spending time out injured can show us up as a very 'hoof-ball' side and Locks job has never been to do more than 'hit the front two' with the ball. I've seen hardly anything of Luton so what is Jones's style? It sounds like he ideally plays a more progressive style of football but is currently erring on the side of pragmatism and playing to the available player's strengths? |
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Post by welwyn on Oct 10, 2022 13:57:40 GMT
Our very direct style of play probably doesn't help. Our back 3 is very much get it, hoof it in the general direction of our front two. Obviously slightly more nuanced than that (think Barnsley under Ismael), but it certainly means ball playing skills isn't number one consideration on our CB shopping list. It was a really good watch last year when you had Kal and Burke playing the outside CB positions (both who are willing to progress the ball themselves in different ways). Losing Kal to B.City and Burke spending time out injured can show us up as a very 'hoof-ball' side and Locks job has never been to do more than 'hit the front two' with the ball. I've seen hardly anything of Luton so what is Jones's style? It sounds like he ideally plays a more progressive style of football but is currently erring on the side of pragmatism and playing to the available player's strengths? When he was here the first time, he was wedded to his 4-diamond-2 formation which relied on exceptional full-backs thant could basically do both the FB & RW job. Thereby, dominating the middle of the field. His recruitment record at Stoke makes me wonder whether he was as aware of the unique qualities the full-backs needed or not. He is certainly a much more rounded manager since coming back from Stoke. There was the 5 at the back, 'scrap for our lives and nick results' system he decided upon to keep us up in the 9-game spell he had in project restart. Then he did something he hardly ever does and added two players on loan in RND and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall, who obviously had quality we couldn't get permanently and were quite an attractive side in the 2020-21 season. Then, probably linked with RND making the decision to bugger off to Stoke in Jan, he doubled down on his 'bringing in players on-loan is pointless viewpoint' allied it to seeing what Ismael had done at Barnsley and decided 'I'm going to take a lot of what they are doing'. High-line, high-press, get the ball to the front quickly and support in floods. This he has evidently doubled up on with signing former youth product Cauley Woodrow and Carlton Morris both from Barnsley who had been so successful under Ismael. |
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Post by iot on Oct 19, 2022 21:28:00 GMT
Credit where it's due:
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emlyn
steve evans
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Post by emlyn on Oct 20, 2022 8:15:48 GMT
In my opinion the most important player in Luton's improvement recently has been Tom Lockyer.
He can play right side or centre of a back three and for me is definately worth a world cup squad place.
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Post by dai on Oct 20, 2022 8:16:35 GMT
He won't be picked for the foreseeable future, fallen out with Page it seems. Maybe Page doesn't like players called Tom?  |
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Post by underwood on Oct 20, 2022 8:29:46 GMT
We are a defensive player down with RND likely to miss out. It would be madness to exclude Lockyer.
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Post by bobbyghoul on Oct 20, 2022 11:00:41 GMT
We are a defensive player down with RND likely to miss out. It would be madness to exclude Lockyer. What's happened to RND? |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 20, 2022 14:20:09 GMT
He won't be picked for the foreseeable future, fallen out with Page it seems. Maybe Page doesn't like players called Tom? Where have you read that he has fallen out with Page*? I thought it was just because the other central defenders had been selected ahead of him. *Obviously everyone on social media claims Page has fallen out with or has a grudge against every player who doesn’t make each squad but I hadn’t heard it about Lockyer. |
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Post by dai on Oct 20, 2022 14:40:47 GMT
He won't be picked for the foreseeable future, fallen out with Page it seems. Maybe Page doesn't like players called Tom? Where have you read that he has fallen out with Page*? I thought it was just because the other central defenders had been selected ahead of him. *Obviously everyone on social media claims Page has fallen out with or has a grudge against every player who doesn’t make each squad but I hadn’t heard it about Lockyer. Obviously, it was something I saw on social media somewhere. Lockyer had pulled out of a squad (between two games of which I cant remember). Injury was stated, but he was back playing for Luton straight after the int break, and he hasn't been selected again for Wales. Some people claiming that 'something happened' during that time which has led to Page not picking him again. It does seem odd that he was in and around the team / squad for a while under Giggs and Page, and suddenly he's dropped off the radar. It's not as if better options came available. |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Oct 20, 2022 14:48:07 GMT
Where have you read that he has fallen out with Page*? I thought it was just because the other central defenders had been selected ahead of him. *Obviously everyone on social media claims Page has fallen out with or has a grudge against every player who doesn’t make each squad but I hadn’t heard it about Lockyer. Obviously, it was something I saw on social media somewhere. Lockyer had pulled out of a squad (between two games of which I cant remember). Injury was stated, but he was back playing for Luton straight after the int break, and he hasn't been selected again for Wales. Some people claiming that 'something happened' during that time which has led to Page not picking him again. It does seem odd that he was in and around the team / squad for a while under Giggs and Page, and suddenly he's dropped off the radar. It's not as if better options came available. It might be as simple as Page thinking Cabango is a better player. I wouldn't agree but fair enough if it is. |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 20, 2022 15:10:16 GMT
Where have you read that he has fallen out with Page*? I thought it was just because the other central defenders had been selected ahead of him. *Obviously everyone on social media claims Page has fallen out with or has a grudge against every player who doesn’t make each squad but I hadn’t heard it about Lockyer. Obviously, it was something I saw on social media somewhere. Lockyer had pulled out of a squad (between two games of which I cant remember). Injury was stated, but he was back playing for Luton straight after the int break, and he hasn't been selected again for Wales. Some people claiming that 'something happened' during that time which has led to Page not picking him again. It does seem odd that he was in and around the team / squad for a while under Giggs and Page, and suddenly he's dropped off the radar. It's not as if better options came available. Sounds like the usual social media ‘player not selected so must be a falling out/grudge/closed shop rather than simply not selected’. Yes, some could argue that he should be in ahead of Cabango but it’s all subjective. If Page had selected Lockyer instead of Cabango would it then mean that he must have a grudge against Cabango? Or is it that he simply cannot select every available player? Is it only us that has this strange habit of presuming rifts with every player outside the squad of 26? Or do other countries have this bizarre outlook on squad selection ? By the way, this isn’t an attack on you dai, it’s an attack on social media. |
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Post by insertname on Oct 20, 2022 16:06:42 GMT
Well rifts are one thing but it seems more than possible to me to infer that Page has a particular MO when selecting players that prioritises younger players over older ones at the expense of form and also prioritises previous service at the expense of form.
As such Lockyer is in pretty much the same boat as Lawrence imo. Barring an injury crisis he will struggle to get in just on merit alone ahead of players who are staples of a Page squad or who are young with potential such as Cabango (as that seems the most obvious choice for Page).
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Post by scarfer on Oct 20, 2022 16:22:34 GMT
if an argument has happened between Page and Lockyer or any player, it should be forgotten about. nevermind squabbling, it is our first world cup in 64 years
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 20, 2022 17:27:44 GMT
if an argument has happened between Page and Lockyer or any player, it should be forgotten about. nevermind squabbling, it is our first world cup in 64 years There’s almost certainly not been any argument, mate. I do agree though, if there is any truth in the rumours then everyone should put it to one side. |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 20, 2022 17:35:36 GMT
Well rifts are one thing but it seems more than possible to me to infer that Page has a particular MO when selecting players that prioritises younger players over older ones at the expense of form and also prioritises previous service at the expense of form. As such Lockyer is in pretty much the same boat as Lawrence imo. Barring an injury crisis he will struggle to get in just on merit alone ahead of players who are staples of a Page squad or who are young with potential such as Cabango (as that seems the most obvious choice for Page). I know your talking about Tom Lawrence here but it has reminded me of James Lawrence. Interesting that Page has been allowed to select other players ahead of him without any accusations of rifts or grudges. Is it because he wasn’t that popular when he was selected? Do we only spread argument rumours for players we like ? Tom King is another, If Adam Davies is fit for the World Cup then King will be dropped and it is almost certain that the social media rumour mongerers won’t bat an eyelid and accept it is simply part of the selection process. Us Wales fans are a strange lot, haha. |
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Post by insertname on Oct 20, 2022 20:33:03 GMT
Well rifts are one thing but it seems more than possible to me to infer that Page has a particular MO when selecting players that prioritises younger players over older ones at the expense of form and also prioritises previous service at the expense of form. As such Lockyer is in pretty much the same boat as Lawrence imo. Barring an injury crisis he will struggle to get in just on merit alone ahead of players who are staples of a Page squad or who are young with potential such as Cabango (as that seems the most obvious choice for Page). I know your talking about Tom Lawrence here but it has reminded me of James Lawrence. Interesting that Page has been allowed to select other players ahead of him without any accusations of rifts or grudges. Is it because he wasn’t that popular when he was selected? Do we only spread argument rumours for players we like ? Tom King is another, If Adam Davies is fit for the World Cup then King will be dropped and it is almost certain that the social media rumour mongerers won’t bat an eyelid and accept it is simply part of the selection process. Us Wales fans are a strange lot, haha. It might be different for others but I am not particularly a member of any player’s fan club unless I feel they have qualities that other players lack (hence my disappointment that Bradshaw never got a good run because as I explained in the Bradshaw thread I feel the quality of his finishing is something missing from the strikers regularly selected over the last few years). So as such Lawrence and Lockyer are here nor there to me in terms of their qualities. I do however believe in the squad being a meritocracy and if you have a player that is playing for a champions league team then it’s only logical that questions should be asked about why they don’t seem to be being given an opportunity. Same with Lockyer to a lesser extent: playing well for a team at the top end of the championship but unlikely to be called up (at least if you draw conclusions from players Page has called up previously). Wrt James Lawrence I had completely forgotten he existed, wouldn’t even know what club he plays for. I guess he is another that has maybe had their chance under Page and won’t be seen again. Probably behind Lockyer in the pecking order. However my attitude would be consistent in that if he were to suddenly end up playing for a CL side then he would deserve a call up and a chance to see how well the “latest iteration” of James Lawrence fits into the squad. As we have seen though that isn’t necessarily how it works with Page and that bothers me as it potentially creates needless problems. The point about squad harmony is always made and I understand to a certain extent Page’s loyalty (I dislike the idea of players who didn’t qualify just breezing in to a finals squad at the expense of those who did) but the flip side is that that limits merit and it’s especially pertinent now where plenty of players seem to be in indifferent form on the eve of the World Cup but those players are guaranteed to travel anyway pretty much. If as per the other thread (and it’s a massive if!) Hughes was being watched by Page that for me would show how ridiculous loyalty can be to end up throwing in an untested player to a World Cup when there was plenty of opportunity to do so before but Page’s loyalty (reluctance to cap older players?) got in the way. |
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Post by dai on Oct 20, 2022 20:56:35 GMT
Well rifts are one thing but it seems more than possible to me to infer that Page has a particular MO when selecting players that prioritises younger players over older ones at the expense of form and also prioritises previous service at the expense of form. As such Lockyer is in pretty much the same boat as Lawrence imo. Barring an injury crisis he will struggle to get in just on merit alone ahead of players who are staples of a Page squad or who are young with potential such as Cabango (as that seems the most obvious choice for Page). I know your talking about Tom Lawrence here but it has reminded me of James Lawrence. Interesting that Page has been allowed to select other players ahead of him without any accusations of rifts or grudges. Is it because he wasn’t that popular when he was selected? Do we only spread argument rumours for players we like ?Tom King is another, If Adam Davies is fit for the World Cup then King will be dropped and it is almost certain that the social media rumour mongerers won’t bat an eyelid and accept it is simply part of the selection process. Us Wales fans are a strange lot, haha. I don't think it was to do with popularity. James Lawrence has played for some obscure clubs across Europe, and I know I may sound ignorant saying that. Lockyer on the other hand has played for a decent Championship outfit, and has become one of their best players. I've seen comments on their forum and twitter which describe him as maybe the best defender Luton have ever had. I know, that may sound like a minor achievement to some, but the Championship isn't an easy league, so to stand out for your team takes some doing. If we as Welsh fans are a strange lot, which, I tend to agree with, then the management can also be accused as being a bit strange! |
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