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Post by georgetm1 on Dec 15, 2011 22:12:01 GMT
187 signatures is pretty poor. In the democracy that we are, I hope that it gets a shrift that is very short from government It isn't really if you compare to the other petitions. Its just not many people in Wales are even aware of this government petition scheme. Plus there are Mp's who have signed it so it won't go away, unfortunatley for you. Cricket will always be a minor sport in Wales until we get our own national team. Its the same with other sports. Until Wales represents itself on the world stage in any sports the only sport that will have any interest shown in them are footy and rugby.
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Post by stu on Dec 16, 2011 11:57:31 GMT
Also it doesn't matter whether you get 10 or 10,000 signatures. All petitions are treated equally.
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Post by llannerch on Dec 18, 2011 11:29:25 GMT
It's 177 more than needed for the Assembly to look at it. Have I ever mentioned how much I detest unionists? Frequently. I'm not sure what unionism has to do with the arguement about a Wales cricket team though
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Post by llannerch on Dec 18, 2011 11:40:55 GMT
Also it doesn't matter whether you get 10 or 10,000 signatures. All petitions are treated equally. The whole way in which UK governments promote 'official' petitions is one of those gimmicky initiatives thought up by PR advisors. It's up there with Cameron inviting people to submit ideas for which perecived red tape should be scrapped and official measurements of wellbeing. Welsh Government will only treat it "equally" because its procedures dictate it must. It isn't doing it because of any innate qualitative reason. So if I get 9 mates to agree to sign a petition suggesting on a Friday all Council workers must dress as clowns, it gets treated equally as a petition to increase minimum wage levels. The sort of faux-democracy gimmick that dilutes the importance of democracy and civil democratic responsibility. It also undermines the credibility of our fledgling government institutions
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Post by llannerch on Dec 18, 2011 11:45:54 GMT
Furthermore what can Welsh Government actually do? Discuss it. That's all. It cannot alter funding to the grassroots game because that is the responsibility of Sport Wales and Cricket Wales. Surely these bodies and the ECB should have been petitioned because they can actually effect the petitioners' desired change.
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Post by stu on Dec 19, 2011 12:23:45 GMT
Firstly, no self respecting patriot would ever willingly support another countries team, especially to the detriment of their own. (You can say things like Welsh boys have played for ingurlund all you like. That is simply because we are not allowed to have our own team, or at least not allowed to compete properly.) Unless of course they are one of these union rag waving queen loving unionists or are fortunate enough to be good enough to get a game. In which case you cant blame them for taking the easy money. Secondly, you obviously don't understand how the petitions system work. Your example proves this as the minimun wage is something that isn't devolved so they would not be able to accept a petition on it. Sport is devolved and this is why the petition was accepted. Thirdly, as for what they could do well here's a fairly straight forward example. They could enable cricket to become a proper sport in Wales. At the moment it's a bit of a joke sport like field hockey, rounders and netball. Sure they have teams but no one takes them serious and no one would care if they vanished. I can already hear someone furiosly typing that they have Olympic teams, so what? No one cares. They could allocate funding to schools in order to provide equipment and to set up teams. The next logical step from that is leagues and competitions. Yes these exist in some fashion but compared to football and rugby they are, as I described above, joke sports. That way more kids would get a taste of cricket and might take that passion through into adulthood. This would have a knock on effect for the local amatuer teams both in playing numbers and spectators. Fourthly, did you know this forum has an edit button
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Post by llannerch on Dec 20, 2011 13:47:23 GMT
Firstly, no self respecting patriot would ever willingly support another countries team, especially to the detriment of their own. (You can say things like Welsh boys have played for ingurlund all you like. That is simply because we are not allowed to have our own team, or at least not allowed to compete properly.) You may wish to criticise the current set-up in 'patriotism' terms but you wilfully ignore it from a professionalism point of view. The current set-up allows Welsh-born, Welsh-produced players to play at the highest level. That's what professionals want to do. The vast majority are prepared to set aside notions of patriotism for that. They may not like it, but they'll do it in order to compete with and against the elite Th Secondly, you obviously don't understand how the petitions system work. Your example proves this as the minimun wage is something that isn't devolved so they would not be able to accept a petition on it. Sport is devolved and this is why the petition was accepted. I stand corrected on how the petition system works. But it's even more ridiculous than I thought, if matters of conscience or principle can't be petitioned about because of which areas are devolved and not. The Welsh Government, like any, only governs by consent. Thirdly, as for what they could do well here's a fairly straight forward example. They could enable cricket to become a proper sport in Wales. At the moment it's a bit of a joke sport like field hockey, rounders and netball. Sure they have teams but no one takes them serious and no one would care if they vanished. I can already hear someone furiosly typing that they have Olympic teams, so what? No one cares. re the bit in bold - you don't say how. Quick answer: Welsh Government can't, though it can make its feelings known. From a policy context I reckon a Welsh cricket team actually runs counter to its policies on elite sports and grassroots participation because in the short term it reduces the profile of cricket, reduces the profile and accessibility of role models, and would lead to the contraction of the number and range of points at which access to the professional game in Wales is possible by aspiring young players They could allocate funding to schools in order to provide equipment and to set up teams. Welsh Government doesn't do this. Local Education Authorities do. Maybe that's where the petition, or a variation of it, needs to go. Fourthly, did you know this forum has an edit button Yeah, but when I'm on a roll the quick response box is so much more gratifying
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Post by flynnfan on Jan 2, 2012 7:16:16 GMT
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Post by Tim P on Jan 2, 2012 14:41:31 GMT
BOOM.
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Post by stu on Jan 2, 2012 19:08:15 GMT
That was a good link and answers quite a few questions and also highlights the current "jobs for the boys" regime that is in place at the moment.
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Post by flynnfan on Jan 2, 2012 19:45:08 GMT
Quite why those running the county club feel a need to boss the rest of cricket in Wales is mystifying but there are always those who seek to create top down organisations for reasons of efficiency and control and many officials at Glamorgan CCC not only see the club as Wales representative on the field but also as the custodian of Wales cricket heritage --------------------- BOOOOOOOOOM!!!
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Post by ontheroadagain on Jan 2, 2012 22:01:48 GMT
Very informative.
No change as it will be turkeys for Xmas.
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Post by flynnfan on Mar 12, 2012 18:44:19 GMT
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Post by tbm on Mar 13, 2012 16:34:01 GMT
As Llannerch says, you're addressing the wrong people. The WAG do not have the power to grant ICC membership. I'm sure any decent lawyer would be able to win the case if the ECB tried to chuck Glammy out by citing the NZ warriors as a precedent. That's really not how precedent works.
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Post by flynnfan on May 14, 2012 21:02:55 GMT
In 2009, Chris Gayle said he "wouldn't be so sad" if Test cricket ceased to exist. It would help West Indies if they had their best team on the pitch, yet an XI of those who are not on this tour might well beat the XI who start on Thursday. For all sorts of weird and unwonderful reasons for this, a number of West Indies' best players are dotted around the globe. The largest group are in India, playing in the IPL. www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/14/west-indies-test-history
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 5, 2013 9:36:48 GMT
Jonathan Edwards @jonathanplaid 2 Aug Delighted that there will be a full National Assembly vote in the Autumn on establishing a Welsh national cricket team.
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Post by Tim P on Aug 5, 2013 16:54:45 GMT
BOOM
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Post by welshiron on Aug 6, 2013 10:25:33 GMT
If we did have a cricket team like Scotland and Ireland any top class players would end up playing for England anyway, also the only way Glamorgan will pay off that stadium is with test matches and even with a team set up now we would probably take 20 years to gain test match status (and that is probably optimistic)
Also, how many people would turn up to watch, barely 4,000 turned up for the crucial 20/20 game (I was one of them plus 3 kids)
That being said I don't personally support England and despite the above would welcome a welsh team
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 10:46:24 GMT
If we did have a cricket team like Scotland and Ireland any top class players would end up playing for England anyway, also the only way Glamorgan will pay off that stadium is with test matches and even with a team set up now we would probably take 20 years to gain test match status (and that is probably optimistic) Also, how many people would turn up to watch, barely 4,000 turned up for the crucial 20/20 game (I was one of them plus 3 kids) That being said I don't personally support England and despite the above would welcome a welsh team One of my boys who is 8 really enjoys playing cricket and seems quite good at it - but I don't think there is enough drive or interest from me in taking things any further. Why? Because the pinnacle of your achievement in this sport is to play representatively for a side, that apparently includes you, but does not even recognise that your own nation exists - in the name, on the badge or even in the acronyn. Many young aspiring talents in Wales will simply never continue in the game, or support the game, for this very reason. This is the 21st century - not the 16th century.
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Post by llannerch on Aug 6, 2013 11:53:50 GMT
Jonathan Edwards @jonathanplaid 2 Aug Delighted that there will be a full National Assembly vote in the Autumn on establishing a Welsh national cricket team. Followed by much hand-ringing of who will pay for it. "Let's cut off a source of substantial, privately-sourced income to grassroots cricket and replace it with....um....well....Welsh Government money. Which we will divert from....um...well....um, let me see....."
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 6, 2013 14:05:55 GMT
llannerch- please tell me what is fair about the best cricketers from Holland or Ireland being able to represent their nation at world cups, whilst that opportunity is denied to cricketers from Wales? .. I'm all ears.
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Post by caeboy on Aug 6, 2013 20:50:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 21:42:04 GMT
last post is the post of the month
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Post by flynnfan on Aug 7, 2013 10:41:03 GMT
last post is the post of the month I agree- great post. Its rare to see flat track bully llannerch so comprehensively clean bowled...
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Post by welshiron on Aug 7, 2013 11:58:08 GMT
Stumps went flying everywhere
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 12:14:20 GMT
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Post by Tim P on Aug 7, 2013 12:25:00 GMT
Haha, owzat! Llanerch has referred it to hawk eye, so he may get another chance.
Truly, it is an absolute disgrace that the highest honour for a Welsh player is to play for england. I'm also puzzled by the Welsh people who support the english team and come up with justifications like:
'everyone knows it's england and Wales' etc
Um, do they? Pretty sure they don't. If it really was england and Wales it would be called england and Wales.
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Post by llannerch on Aug 13, 2013 12:12:29 GMT
llannerch- please tell me what is fair about the best cricketers from Holland or Ireland being able to represent their nation at world cups, whilst that opportunity is denied to cricketers from Wales? .. I'm all ears. Don't think I've ever said it is fair. Neither have I ever said I like the current situation. Neither have I ever said there should not be a Welsh national team. Feel free to bring such a post to my attention. My repeated point, and which oddly very few here debate, is that there is no business case for a Wales team and that the finances for cricket in Wales would fall through the floor. Glamorgan have barely enough Welsh players of sufficient calibre in the team now let let alone to populate a national team. Players who want to have a professional career and to ultimately play at Test level will no longer have a local professional club to join, i.e., Glamorgan. If they were to opt to join English counties they would be making themselves unavailable for the Welsh team. The finances to pay off the Swalec Stadium would also dry up. Again, I'm not saying it is fair; I am not saying I like the situation; I am not a unionist, loyalist, royalist or whatever else you want to label me, nor any less a patriot for pointing this out or wanting it debated. It is an informed observation of the issue. The choice as I see it, unless flynnfan you can offer a financial model to me that suggests otherwise, is the status quo or a situation where a Welsh team plays the likes of the UAE, Canada and Bermuda half a dozen times a year and no domestic teams. Interestingly people who talk up the sovereignty of the Irish cricket team tend to overlook how it has featured mercenary South Africans, Australians and West Indians such as Hansie Cronje, Phil Simmonds, Andre Botha, Jeremy Bray and Trent Johnston among others. While Will Porterfield and Eoin Morgan, among others, are or have been unavailable for Ireland in order to play for their counties. It is not a sustainable model which the CEO of Irish cricket has recently acknowledged.
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Post by llannerch on Aug 20, 2013 20:24:36 GMT
This article backs up my fears that if you cut off the supply of cash to the game it withers on the vine and the players with professional, let alone international aspirations, won't hang around until/if it improves. www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/aug/20/cricket-the-spin
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 8:21:31 GMT
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