|
Post by caeboy on Aug 21, 2013 17:07:30 GMT
This article backs up my fears that if you cut off the supply of cash to the game it withers on the vine and the players with professional, let alone international aspirations, won't hang around until/if it improves. www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/aug/20/cricket-the-spinLlanarch, personally I think you may be mis-interpreting the stand out point of this article, namely "it's not just evidence of the game's struggle to grow in new countries but of its failure to sustain itself in an area where it was already well established". Cricket has a problem, and in its current set up in Wales it's not exactly pushing the buttons of the majority of Welsh people. I was also interested to see that the BCCI are encouraging international cricket teams with funding. Imagine a Welsh cricket team in the World Cup with 'Visit Wales'as the sponsor on the shirt! Stu, I hope you're highlighting this thread to Jonathan Edwards to show the strength of feeling.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 20:20:51 GMT
Did anyone notice that Ireland scored 260 odd in the ODI against England today - England's top bowler was Irishman, Boyd Rankin with 4 wickets. England were struggling in response at somewhere around 50-4 when Irishman Eoin Morgan came in and hit a game changing century to win the game for England.
Apparently, Morgan was booed as he entered the fray.
An embarrassment to the so called "One day INTERNATIONAL" game of cricket.
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Sept 4, 2013 11:38:47 GMT
SO a couple of Irishmen help England beat Ireland at cricket...what an absolute farce that game was yesterday. The ICC should hang their heads in shame.
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Sept 6, 2013 13:51:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Oct 23, 2013 15:41:18 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Oct 24, 2013 13:06:52 GMT
There seems to be a lot of support for it, but the same old unionist scaremongers / Dic Sion Dafydds seem keen to maintain the imperialist farce that is the biggest honour a Welshman can get is to play for england. Pathetic. I do think that this one is going to run though, we'll get there in the end.
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Oct 24, 2013 13:52:11 GMT
Problem is if England don't play test matches at the SWALEC then Glamorgan will go bust I'm afraid
Unless, a rich benefactor paid off the debt and donated the ground to Welsh cricket
I for one don't go and watch England but would go and watch Wales, however, I'm in the minority on this.
Even more depressing is that if England played a home football match in Cardiff they would sell out to welsh people alone. sell out for sell outs, I like that
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Oct 24, 2013 14:09:45 GMT
Problem is if England don't play test matches at the SWALEC then Glamorgan will go bust I'm afraid That is irrelevant to people who want a Welsh cricket team simply because Ireland and Scotland have one. They have no desire to engage the debate on economic grounds. I've tried (see my last post in this thread). The sovereignty argument is persuasive, but can't be considered in isolation from the financial one.
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Oct 24, 2013 14:30:28 GMT
Someone made the point in the debate yesterday that one of the reasons Glamorgan are in so much financial shit is becasue they bid huge sums for ENGLAND test matches, which then had piss poor attendances!
So you're talking shit I'm afraid.
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Oct 24, 2013 14:32:52 GMT
To a degree you are right Llanerch but if the SWALEC closed where would any welsh team play? There would have to be a serious investment from somewhere to bring other another ground up to international standard.
It would also leave Glamorgan a team I have supported man and boy right in the shit.
I would love a welsh team but have to make sure it not at any cost.
The other point is we would still only obtain ODI status and that would still leave our best players playing for England
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Oct 24, 2013 14:33:09 GMT
Problem is if England don't play test matches at the SWALEC then Glamorgan will go bust I'm afraid That is irrelevant to people who want a Welsh cricket team simply because Ireland and Scotland have one. They have no desire to engage the debate on economic grounds. I've tried (see my last post in this thread). The sovereignty argument is persuasive, but can't be considered in isolation from the financial one. We can't subsidise the stadium for ten years? Exactly how much money would be required for that? I'm guessing not that much in finance terms. I'm also sure that the initial novelty of us having a national team (imagine that!) would see big crowds, and then we could work from there. PRetty sure it would bring extra support to Glamorgan too, initially and over time. Economically: short term loss, medium term break even, long term gain.
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Oct 24, 2013 14:36:20 GMT
The other point is we would still only obtain ODI status and that would still leave our best players playing for England ---------- Yes. but we have to start somewhere. Which was a point made by a Plaid AM yseterday. The biggest turd in the debate was the Red tory AM for Swansea, who kept going on about what an honour it is for a Welshman to be picked for England. What an absolutely horrible, snivelling little shit that man is.
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Oct 24, 2013 14:41:08 GMT
Economically it would bankrupt Glamorgan unless somebody stepped in, the repayments on the stadium are pretty high. Can't see even with the novelty a welsh team getting big crowds unless they played England,India or Pakistan.
There would also be the loss of money to Cricket Wales which comes from being part of the english and welsh cricket board so that would have to be addressed as well.
Finally, Glamorgan's crowds would more likely dwindle as they will be playing without half of it's team for most of the season. This would lead to the county signing more english / kolpak players
Don't get me wrong I would love a welsh team but it is a far more complicated set up than Ireland or Scotland so needs to be done carefully and with due dilligence
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Oct 24, 2013 15:44:34 GMT
Economically it would bankrupt Glamorgan unless somebody stepped in, the repayments on the stadium are pretty high. Can't see even with the novelty a welsh team getting big crowds unless they played England,India or Pakistan. There would also be the loss of money to Cricket Wales which comes from being part of the english and welsh cricket board so that would have to be addressed as well. Finally, Glamorgan's crowds would more likely dwindle as they will be playing without half of it's team for most of the season. This would lead to the county signing more english / kolpak players Don't get me wrong I would love a welsh team but it is a far more complicated set up than Ireland or Scotland so needs to be done carefully and with due dilligence If it is complex and needs to be done carefully and with due diligence then that's what will have to be done. All of the issues you mention seem highly achievable.
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Oct 24, 2013 15:52:20 GMT
Economically it would bankrupt Glamorgan unless somebody stepped in, the repayments on the stadium are pretty high. Can't see even with the novelty a welsh team getting big crowds unless they played England,India or Pakistan. There would also be the loss of money to Cricket Wales which comes from being part of the english and welsh cricket board so that would have to be addressed as well. Finally, Glamorgan's crowds would more likely dwindle as they will be playing without half of it's team for most of the season. This would lead to the county signing more english / kolpak players Don't get me wrong I would love a welsh team but it is a far more complicated set up than Ireland or Scotland so needs to be done carefully and with due dilligence If it is complex and needs to be done carefully and with due diligence then that's what will have to be done. All of the issues you mention seem highly achievable. Exactly right. Where there's a will there's a way. It seems quite clear after watching the debate yesterday, the major obstacle to having a Wales cricket team is the lack of will from those with vested interests and unionist agendas.
|
|
|
Post by georgetm1 on Oct 24, 2013 17:32:16 GMT
I couldn't give two shits about Glamorgan. If they can't survive without English help then they shouldn't be in the Cricketing business in the first place. How do the English clubs manage with an English national team if Glamorgan supposedly can't if we have one. Their selfishness and even their very existence is holding Welsh cricket back and stopping us from having a proper national team but instead we are hanging onto Englands coat tails like some hidden parasite that nobody cares about. Ireland and Scotland have a national team and are doing just fine,so where is ours?
|
|
|
Post by caeboy on Oct 24, 2013 17:44:59 GMT
I couldn't give two shits about Glamorgan. If they can't survive without English help then they shouldn't be in the Cricketing business in the first place. How do the English clubs manage with an English national team if Glamorgan supposedly can't if we have one. Their selfishness and even their very existence is holding Welsh cricket back and stopping us from having a proper national team but instead we are hanging onto Englands coat tails like some hidden parasite that nobody cares about. Ireland and Scotland have a national team and are doing just fine,so where is ours? Hear, Hear!
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Oct 25, 2013 14:21:27 GMT
I agree fully that we should have a welsh team
However no-one has answered the financial issues
1. Who will pay for the stadium
2. Who will replace the money that is received from the ECB, a fair proportion of which is used for grassroots cricket.
One further question what is the difference between Glamorgan playing in primarily an English competition and Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham, Colwyn Bay and Merthyr playing in the purely English pyramid with the ultimate goal of representing England in the Champions League.
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Oct 25, 2013 22:05:19 GMT
I agree fully that we should have a welsh team However no-one has answered the financial issues 1. Who will pay for the stadium 2. Who will replace the money that is received from the ECB, a fair proportion of which is used for grassroots cricket. One further question what is the difference between Glamorgan playing in primarily an English competition and Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham, Colwyn Bay and Merthyr playing in the purely English pyramid with the ultimate goal of representing England in the Champions League. 1) The Government will subsidise it for a set period of time. They will work harder to use it for pop concerts / corporate events. 2) As above. Give it to the the WRU to run, they'll have it turning over a profit in the medium and long term.
|
|
|
Post by tbm on Nov 3, 2013 2:07:24 GMT
I agree fully that we should have a welsh team However no-one has answered the financial issues 1. Who will pay for the stadium 2. Who will replace the money that is received from the ECB, a fair proportion of which is used for grassroots cricket. One further question what is the difference between Glamorgan playing in primarily an English competition and Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham, Colwyn Bay and Merthyr playing in the purely English pyramid with the ultimate goal of representing England in the Champions League. 1) The Government will subsidise it for a set period of time. They will work harder to use it for pop concerts / corporate events. 2) As above. Give it to the the WRU to run, they'll have it turning over a profit in the medium and long term. Ultimately the problem is that a lot of cricket funding in Wales comes from the ECB's £260m test match broadcasting agreement with Sky. "The Government will subsidise it for a set period of time" isn't really a good enough alternative.
|
|
|
Post by georgetm1 on Nov 3, 2013 12:31:51 GMT
Again what makes us any different from Ireland or Scotland?
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Nov 3, 2013 13:20:23 GMT
1) The Government will subsidise it for a set period of time. They will work harder to use it for pop concerts / corporate events. 2) As above. Give it to the the WRU to run, they'll have it turning over a profit in the medium and long term. Ultimately the problem is that a lot of cricket funding in Wales comes from the ECB's £260m test match broadcasting agreement with Sky. "The Government will subsidise it for a set period of time" isn't really a good enough alternative. Why not?
|
|
|
Post by tbm on Nov 4, 2013 21:55:24 GMT
Ultimately the problem is that a lot of cricket funding in Wales comes from the ECB's £260m test match broadcasting agreement with Sky. "The Government will subsidise it for a set period of time" isn't really a good enough alternative. Why not? In short, because the Wales Cricket Board wouldn't have a test match deal with Sky. In long: 1. "The Government will subsidise it". The government doesn't have the money to spare. They're struggling with the NHS budget and you want them to find £2m-a-year to give to Glamorgan Cricket Club alone? That's about what the ECB gives to the 18 counties just to keep them ticking over. Even as a Glamorgan fan, I'd find that pretty appalling. 2. "The Government will subsidise it". The government shouldn't be tasked with essentially replacing a private business agreement due to a rather trivial ideological point like the prominence of Wales' ODI side when the vast majority of Wales' taxpayers couldn't give a monkeys about ODI cricket one way or the other. 3. "The Government will subsidise it". The government already did subsidise Sophia Gardens' redevelopment. Cardiff Council provided a substantial loan, but based on the ground and city being able to attract test cricket. 4. "A set period of time". A 15,000-seater cricket stadium will never be of use to a Wales ODI side. 5. "A set period of time". A Wales Cricket Board will never generate revenue even close to Wales' present share of the ECB's revenues. Basically, for all the admiration of Scotland and Ireland here, they have no pissing pot and both play their home games in a field. I don't think anyone at all would not want a Wales ODI side if it did not negatively impact on cricket in Wales as a whole, but there are logistical problems over funding and Glamorgan's future that need to be worked out with a proposal a bit more substantial than "the government can give us money until we make it ourselves". I mean, "They will work harder to use it for pop concerts / corporate events." What the feck is that? You mean they're blasé about corporate events right now? Again what makes us any different from Ireland or Scotland? Wales currently has greater cricketing infrastructure.
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Nov 5, 2013 13:35:55 GMT
I couldn't give two shits about Glamorgan. If they can't survive without English help then they shouldn't be in the Cricketing business in the first place. How do the English clubs manage with an English national team if Glamorgan supposedly can't if we have one. Their selfishness and even their very existence is holding Welsh cricket back and stopping us from having a proper national team but instead we are hanging onto Englands coat tails like some hidden parasite that nobody cares about. Ireland and Scotland have a national team and are doing just fine,so where is ours? Fair play this is ridiculous. Eoin Morgan and Boyd Rankin no longer wish to play for their native Ireland. Others have turned it down in the past. You have seen the number of ringers and Saffas that comprise Ireland and Scotland's teams? Why? Because they can't produce enough talent to even compete at the middling level they are at. Name me all the Welsh cricketers and with the exception of Geraint Jones and Steffan Jones they all have one thing in common: they played for Glamorgan. Get rid of Glamorgan and you have no professional infrastructure in which to develop the very players needed to play in a Welsh side. Rankin and Ballance's call up for the Ashes shows how unequal international cricket is. The best Welsh players would reject playing for us in ODIs against Holland and Canada for a shot at Test cricket
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Nov 5, 2013 13:40:57 GMT
Give it to the the WRU to run, they'll have it turning over a profit in the medium and long term. Post that on Gwlad message board and you'll get torn a new one. Millennium Stadium was the biggest gift horse going. Lottery stumped up the cash and it was built to a fixed price contract (that incidentally almost drove the contractor to the wall, and resulted in thousands being made redundant). And it still hasn't returned to break even. And this is not considering the cash that has been drawn out of the domestic game to pay for it. Naive
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Nov 5, 2013 15:27:42 GMT
Give it to the the WRU to run, they'll have it turning over a profit in the medium and long term. Post that on Gwlad message board and you'll get torn a new one. Millennium Stadium was the biggest gift horse going. Lottery stumped up the cash and it was built to a fixed price contract (that incidentally almost drove the contractor to the wall, and resulted in thousands being made redundant). And it still hasn't returned to break even. And this is not considering the cash that has been drawn out of the domestic game to pay for it. Naive Maybe so. But I'd be interested to hear anyone state a case against Roger Lewis and how well he is doing from a financial point of view.
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Nov 6, 2013 9:07:08 GMT
Roger Lewis is riding the wave of a successful side, once the side start losing games we will see what he is made of.
|
|
|
Post by llannerch on Nov 6, 2013 20:10:55 GMT
Post that on Gwlad message board and you'll get torn a new one. Millennium Stadium was the biggest gift horse going. Lottery stumped up the cash and it was built to a fixed price contract (that incidentally almost drove the contractor to the wall, and resulted in thousands being made redundant). And it still hasn't returned to break even. And this is not considering the cash that has been drawn out of the domestic game to pay for it. Naive Maybe so. But I'd be interested to hear anyone state a case against Roger Lewis and how well he is doing from a financial point of view. Seriously? Spend 3 minutes on Gwlad and you'll find a ton of people
|
|
|
Post by Tim P on Nov 6, 2013 21:43:30 GMT
Maybe so. But I'd be interested to hear anyone state a case against Roger Lewis and how well he is doing from a financial point of view. Seriously? Spend 3 minutes on Gwlad and you'll find a ton of people Bitter fans of the awful old club system by any chance? I fear we're veering dangerously into egg territory here
|
|
|
Post by flynnfan on Mar 8, 2014 11:32:41 GMT
bumped for ladotelli and caeboy.
|
|