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Post by ladotelli on Mar 8, 2014 16:35:13 GMT
Cheers Flynnfan.
I feel that Caeboy in his anger has painted a very wrong picture of me in this debate. I merely stated that I support my current national cricket team, something he has taken great offence to!
I do actually support the split of the English and Welsh cricket team and the creation of a Wales and England teams in their own right. However some of the arguments put forward are silly, Welsh cricket would go BACKWARDS if this happened as their would be a funding gap. We wouldn't be playing the likes of Australia and India either. However I also agree that that is not the point.
Our team, much like the current cricket team, would be full of Saffers and Aussies too, It would be loaded with players who aren't born in Wales like our national football team. Without proper funding this will always be the case as we just won't be able to find the funding to invest in creating our own players.
That being said I am still in favour of having a WELSH national cricket team, I see no reason why we do not have one. I just don't like the inaccuracies put forward by my fellow advocates of the idea.
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Mar 8, 2014 17:06:58 GMT
Fuck the ENGLAND cricket team!!!
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Post by caeboy on Mar 8, 2014 17:37:40 GMT
"I merely stated that I support my current national cricket team!" Your team being England which only goes to maintaining the status quo and therefore in no way enhances a Wales cricket team.
"I feel that Caeboy in his anger has painted a very wrong picture of me in this debate". its a completely accurate picture, it's just that I went finishing for minnows, but caught an Uncle tom!
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Post by ladotelli on Mar 8, 2014 17:55:37 GMT
"I merely stated that I support my current national cricket team!" Your team being England which only goes to maintaining the status quo and therefore in no way enhances a Wales cricket team. "I feel that Caeboy in his anger has painted a very wrong picture of me in this debate". its a completely accurate picture, it's just that I went finishing for minnows, but caught an Uncle tom! My team being England and Wales as we both agree it's the England and Wales cricket board. I support all our national teams, sadly you cannot say the same.
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Post by caeboy on Mar 8, 2014 18:29:02 GMT
The team is ENGLAND. To help doughnuts understand this, the England team wear the 3 Lions and play under the St.George's cross. Just in case the really stupid people are still confused, they call the team what it is 'England'. There board is the England and Wales cricket Board more commonly known as the 'E'CB. England may be your national team. I can assure you that England is not my national team. I would rather stick rusty pins in my eyes than support England, especially as it inhibits my own country having a sports team which would expose Wales to the rest of the world.
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Mar 8, 2014 18:38:05 GMT
Its the england cricket team, Wales gets no credit and no mention, would rather shit in my hand's and clap than support ENGLAND at anything!!!
3 lions on the chest and crest = england
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Post by ladotelli on Mar 8, 2014 18:51:55 GMT
The team is ENGLAND. To help doughnuts understand this, the England team wear the 3 Lions and play under the St.George's cross. Just in case the really stupid people are still confused, they call the team what it is 'England'. There board is the England and Wales cricket Board more commonly known as the 'E'CB. England may be your national team. I can assure you that England is not my national team. I would rather stick rusty pins in my eyes than support England, especially as it inhibits my own country having a sports team which would expose Wales to the rest of the world. I can arrange a rusty pin for your one eye? I actually posted in this thread I support the creation of a separate England and Wales team. I find it sad you can't accept other peoples views and have to resort to insults! Guess what? I have a different opinion on something to you, stop getting so angry. Whilst no such teams exists I will support the team that represents Wales currently. Again, I actually said in this thread that I see no reason why we and England don't have separate national teams, conveniently ignored by you. I will also say that the three lions etc is wrong and Wales should have more of a representation. The problem with people like you is that you come across as more Anti-English than pro-Welsh sadly.
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Post by caeboy on Mar 9, 2014 10:17:22 GMT
Angry? I'm just enjoying myself while taking apart your weak argument and loose principles - its not hard! If I read your post on another thread and didn't reply, it's probably just that I think you're talking utter horseshit there too! Wales will NEVER be represented on the England cricket badge and there will never be a Wales cricket team while 'Welsh' people like you sucker up to the England cricket team and accept the status quo.
Now you're trying to use the 'anti-english' diversion. Yawn! Actually the problem is that your pro-English approach is Anti-Welsh. As again, there will never be a Wales cricket team while the Welsh are willing to support another country's sports team for such pathetic reasons as an occasional mention in the name of the board!
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Post by tbm on Mar 12, 2014 8:52:57 GMT
The team is ENGLAND. To help doughnuts understand this, the England team wear the 3 Lions and play under the St.George's cross. Just in case the really stupid people are still confused, they call the team what it is 'England'. There board is the England and Wales cricket Board more commonly known as the 'E'CB. We truly have grasped that concept and, funnily enough, if this was about petitioning the ECB to recognise the missing 'W', I'd happily sign. You'd think that would be a much simpler solution to the problem of Wales' underrepresentation than the total elimination of all first-class cricket from Wales.
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Post by caeboy on Mar 14, 2014 19:54:41 GMT
The team is ENGLAND. To help doughnuts understand this, the England team wear the 3 Lions and play under the St.George's cross. Just in case the really stupid people are still confused, they call the team what it is 'England'. There board is the England and Wales cricket Board more commonly known as the 'E'CB. We truly have grasped that concept and, funnily enough, if this was about petitioning the ECB to recognise the missing 'W', I'd happily sign. You'd think that would be a much simpler solution to the problem of Wales' underrepresentation than the total elimination of all first-class cricket from Wales. The EWCB! Wow! ... It's still England!
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Post by tbm on Mar 16, 2014 18:47:32 GMT
It'd be a start.
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Post by caeboy on Mar 18, 2014 19:13:45 GMT
... a start in the wrong direction.
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Post by tbm on Mar 19, 2014 7:49:52 GMT
So you complain about our lack of representation... but disapprove of getting any?
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Post by caeboy on Mar 19, 2014 8:41:23 GMT
Did I complain about having no representation? Or, did I highlight that there is none, and so Welsh people clinging to the England team like it's our own is lame.
So you put all your effort into getting a 'W' in the abbreviation (I actually doubt you'd make any effort,or it would ever happen, and that Ireland would have more claim to recognition in England cricket currently in any case)but let's say that somehow it happened... how would a 'W' in the name of the board then actually benefit Wales or Welsh sport?
A ODI Wales cricket team in the window of the world through the likes of the current T20 world cup would be hugely beneficial for Wales and needs to be aim.
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Post by ladotelli on Mar 19, 2014 22:40:41 GMT
Ironically it is not the English that are stopping us having our own team which has been suggested on here it is Welsh people themselves by voting for the AMs that rejected this a few months back.
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Post by tbm on Mar 24, 2014 15:06:40 GMT
Did I complain about having no representation? Or, did I highlight that there is none, and so Welsh people clinging to the England team like it's our own is lame. So you put all your effort into getting a 'W' in the abbreviation (I actually doubt you'd make any effort,or it would ever happen, and that Ireland would have more claim to recognition in England cricket currently in any case)but let's say that somehow it happened... how would a 'W' in the name of the board then actually benefit Wales or Welsh sport? A ODI Wales cricket team in the window of the world through the likes of the current T20 world cup would be hugely beneficial for Wales and needs to be aim. You made disparaging remarks about Wales' lack of representation. I took that to show dissatisfaction. I apologise if you are indeed satisfied. To answer your question, I shan't be putting all my effort into a W, merely the effort to sign a petition. However, my effort is for the advancement of the sport in Wales. What is yours for? Basically, how will an ODI team at the cost of professional, test, youth and structural cricket improve the sport here?
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Post by caeboy on Mar 24, 2014 18:37:35 GMT
Did I complain about having no representation? Or, did I highlight that there is none, and so Welsh people clinging to the England team like it's our own is lame. So you put all your effort into getting a 'W' in the abbreviation (I actually doubt you'd make any effort,or it would ever happen, and that Ireland would have more claim to recognition in England cricket currently in any case)but let's say that somehow it happened... how would a 'W' in the name of the board then actually benefit Wales or Welsh sport? A ODI Wales cricket team in the window of the world through the likes of the current T20 world cup would be hugely beneficial for Wales and needs to be aim. You made disparaging remarks about Wales' lack of representation. I took that to show dissatisfaction. I apologise if you are indeed satisfied. To answer your question, I shan't be putting all my effort into a W, merely the effort to sign a petition. However, my effort is for the advancement of the sport in Wales. What is yours for? Basically, how will an ODI team at the cost of professional, test, youth and structural cricket improve the sport here? 'DISPARAGING REMARKS about the lack of representation'!! Wrong again Tom, just highlighting that you support the English team, I believe in the value of a Welsh one. So you're not interested in Wales, the cultural or economic potential by marketing Wales through its own sports teams. Only the advancement of cricket in Wales... So, how well has the sport in Wales advanced under the current system of contributing to the England team? How many Welsh players have been developed to the standard of playing for England? since Simon Jones nearly 10 years ago at test cricket and at ODI cricket? How many Irish players have been developed in the same period under their system of having a national team? (despite there being far greater history or cricket and player base in Wales than Ireland, and despite Ireland being properly represented through its own national team)
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Post by ladotelli on Mar 24, 2014 19:03:37 GMT
The best Irish players go on to represent England anyway.
Again, our AMs had a vote on this and voted against, they were chosen by the people. Nothing will change while the sheep in this country keep voting labour.
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Post by tbm on Mar 24, 2014 19:05:23 GMT
You are not disparaging of Wales' representation within the ECB? Okay. It kinda makes the rest of this redundant if you are supportive of the status quo, but whatever...
You didn't answer my question. How will Wales benefit from the desolation of cricket infrastructure? I am not sure what the number of Irish players has to do with that. The Ireland football team are better than Wales; that doesn't mean it's a good idea to liquidate Cardiff City and Swansea.
Why do you think Wales will produce better cricket players if the funding for youth cricket is removed? Why is Irish cricket even an example to be followed, if the target for success to you is still playing first-class for England?
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Post by caeboy on Mar 24, 2014 21:15:48 GMT
You support the English team and are supportive of the current system Uncle Tbm, I am not.
You didn't answer any of my questions! Why does a Wales ODI team mean the 'desolation' of the cricket infrastructure? What exactly is being desolated? - The professional structure and youth system you harp on about hasn't produced one Welsh player capable of playing International Cricket in nearly a decade. (the idea of Welshmen playing for English teams makes my skin crawl but its what you seem to want).
In the meantime the Irish ICC system is producing far more and their country is promoted around the world in the meantime.
I couldn't care less about Glamorgan, but being as you don't want Wales to have a team because it might 'desolate' the current (ineffectual) system...
"none of this need have any direct implications for Welsh cricketers’ continued access to the higher echelons of the game via the ECB’s competitions. There is no reason why Glamorgan should not remain a first-class county, or why Wales should cease to enter a team in the Minor Counties championship, or Wales Women cease to play in the Women’s County Championship. By the same token, Welsh youth teams could continue to take part in the ECB’s age-group competitions. After all, Scotland and the Netherlands play in both the Clydesdale Bank 40 League (men) and county championship (women), with Ireland also participating in the latter. In the particular circumstances pertaining to Wales, especially the existence of Glamorgan as an English first-class county, player eligibility would need careful definition, but in many respects the situation is little different from that in Ireland or Scotland – or, for that matter, in the Netherlands. Young Welsh cricketers could continue to aspire to play for England, and playing for Wales in the meantime need be no barrier to that ambition; having once played for England, however, they would be barred for playing again for Wales for at least four years".
-Independent consultation on The Establishment of a Welsh Cricket Team Response, Professor Rod Lyall
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Post by ladotelli on Mar 24, 2014 22:15:06 GMT
Which would continue to happen regardless of whether England and Wales had seperate teams but this time Wales will not have the quality funding we currently receive for cricket here. Oh and do Ashley Williams, Andy King, Joniesta make your skin crawl too? In the meantime the Irish ICC system is producing far more and their country is promoted around the world in the meantime. The best of which all play for England.
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Post by caeboy on Mar 25, 2014 7:07:57 GMT
Which would continue to happen regardless of whether England and Wales had seperate teams but this time Wales will not have the quality funding we currently receive for cricket here. Oh and do Ashley Williams, Andy King, Joniesta make your skin crawl too? In the meantime the Irish ICC system is producing far more and their country is promoted around the world in the meantime. The best of which all play for England. ...Probably the poorest attempt at selective manipulation of a post and short term memory that I've seen on here. Try reading the earlier posts for a context. It will explain why I think there should be a Welsh cricket team and you'll see Uncle Tbm giving reasons to prevent it based around it denying Welsh players the chance of playing at the top of the game. Simply not true. It IS possible to have both, whether you like the other side or not. As I've told you before, I happily accept Ashley Williams, Joniesta etc as they try to better my country's team (Wales), cricketers playing for England try to benefit someone else's (England).
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Post by tbm on Mar 25, 2014 12:31:42 GMT
You support the English team and are supportive of the current system Uncle Tbm, I am not. You didn't answer any of my questions! Why does a Wales ODI team mean the 'desolation' of the cricket infrastructure? What exactly is being desolated? - The professional structure and youth system you harp on about hasn't produced one Welsh player capable of playing International Cricket in nearly a decade. (the idea of Welshmen playing for English teams makes my skin crawl but its what you seem to want). In the meantime the Irish ICC system is producing far more and their country is promoted around the world in the meantime. I couldn't care less about Glamorgan, but being as you don't want Wales to have a team because it might 'desolate' the current (ineffectual) system... "none of this need have any direct implications for Welsh cricketers’ continued access to the higher echelons of the game via the ECB’s competitions. There is no reason why Glamorgan should not remain a first-class county, or why Wales should cease to enter a team in the Minor Counties championship, or Wales Women cease to play in the Women’s County Championship. By the same token, Welsh youth teams could continue to take part in the ECB’s age-group competitions. After all, Scotland and the Netherlands play in both the Clydesdale Bank 40 League (men) and county championship (women), with Ireland also participating in the latter. In the particular circumstances pertaining to Wales, especially the existence of Glamorgan as an English first-class county, player eligibility would need careful definition, but in many respects the situation is little different from that in Ireland or Scotland – or, for that matter, in the Netherlands. Young Welsh cricketers could continue to aspire to play for England, and playing for Wales in the meantime need be no barrier to that ambition; having once played for England, however, they would be barred for playing again for Wales for at least four years". -Independent consultation on The Establishment of a Welsh Cricket Team Response, Professor Rod Lyall Look, a Wales ODI team does not mean the desolation of cricket infrastructure; the removal of ECB funding does. You still haven't addressed this, you've just decided that the present failure to achieve an arbitrary goal you made up (having more Welshmen than Irishmen in the England team) means that the funding is not required. That isn't a logic I can support. Nor do I understand the bit about Glamorgan remaining a first-class county because the Dutch and Scottish play 40-over. 40-over cricket isn't first-class cricket. And again, we return to the same point. Glamorgan receive around £2m from the ECB. How is that funding shortfall overcome? Round and round and round we go... It's difficult having a conversation about Glamorgan's future with someone that has an agenda that threatens it and openly couldn't give a shit about them. It's like getting a bunch of rabbis to organise Palestinian aid. As I've told you before, I happily accept Ashley Williams, Joniesta etc as they try to better my country's team (Wales), cricketers playing for England try to benefit someone else's (England). How would you feel about a Welsh footballer with no hope of playing for Wales turning out for San Marino?
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rrs
steve evans
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Post by rrs on Mar 25, 2014 20:12:23 GMT
I couldn't give a shit about Glamorgan cricket club either if its a club that gets in the way of the country. Probably why most Welsh people are pretty apathetic towards cricket. couldn't care less about the Glamorgan club and definitely couldn't care less about the English team. No Wales team so couldn't give a shit about cricket.
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Post by tbm on Mar 27, 2014 19:49:17 GMT
Ah good. And the next time a debate on the future of cricket requires the opinion of someone that couldn't give a shit about cricket, we'll give you a call.
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rrs
steve evans
Posts: 13
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Post by rrs on Mar 28, 2014 7:58:17 GMT
Ah good. And the next time a debate on the future of cricket requires the opinion of someone that couldn't give a shit about cricket, we'll give you a call. Likewise with you and debates about Wales where u clearly couldn't give a shit.
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Post by tbm on Mar 28, 2014 8:52:33 GMT
Actually, I think the present opinion on those of us that weren't raised to hate England is that we're unintelligent and brainwashed by the establishment.
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Post by Tim P on Mar 28, 2014 12:46:40 GMT
Actually, I think the present opinion on those of us that weren't raised to hate England is that we're unintelligent and brainwashed by the establishment. Hang on a second: 'hating england' has nothing to do with wanting a self-governing Wales. Bit disingenuous of you to say that, sound a bit like something an establishment toady would say
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Post by tbm on Mar 28, 2014 16:22:44 GMT
Actually, I think the present opinion on those of us that weren't raised to hate England is that we're unintelligent and brainwashed by the establishment. Hang on a second: 'hating england' has nothing to do with wanting a self-governing Wales. Yeah, sure, it's just an added bonus!
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rrs
steve evans
Posts: 13
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Post by rrs on Mar 31, 2014 20:58:05 GMT
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