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Post by iot on Mar 19, 2023 19:49:41 GMT
I definitely think it's the right call but it hasn't been handled well. Surely Matty Jones should have spoken to him before naming the squad? The statement also makes it sound like Savage made the call himself, rather than it being a mutual decision, which I think is slightly concerning.
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Post by Belle Vue on Mar 19, 2023 20:22:34 GMT
Couple of things on Charlie
Under 19 squad UEFA qualifiers - flew home early - missed last match
Under 21 squad - June 2022 - UEFA Qualifiers, called into squad decided not to join squad
Under 21 squad - March 2023 - Friendly Match - called into squad , decided not to join squad
So I’m thinking he’s clearly got some talent but maybe he thinks he’s better than Under 21 level or wishes to represent England
Call his bluff - call him into the senior squad tonight - let’s see how this fits in with his mindset
Or just tell him to do one ( big time Charlie )
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 19, 2023 20:31:00 GMT
Can we stop jumping to conclusions please? England?? Give it a rest, the boy is Welsh through and through
He's not had enough senior football for his age, to fulfill his potential he needs to keep himself in the FGR team and build up senior experience - only then will he be useful to us. Correct decision
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Post by Belle Vue on Mar 19, 2023 20:42:13 GMT
How is he Welsh through and through- he was born in England!! 😀
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 19, 2023 21:07:26 GMT
He's represented Wales at all kinds of youth levels and his dad played for Wales. He was born in Leicester, where his Welsh dad was playing at the time. Something tells me that if he felt English or that he wanted to play for England he'd have done so by now at some level, I don't get the impression that he'll do a Grealish, not with a dad like Robbie.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 19, 2023 21:28:00 GMT
How is he Welsh through and through- he was born in England!! 😀 You do realise you can have a connection to England and still be Welsh through and through? |
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Post by welshrover on Mar 19, 2023 23:05:32 GMT
How is he Welsh through and through- he was born in England!! 😀 And his mum is English. |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 19, 2023 23:15:47 GMT
My mate reckons he's going to hold out for an England call up, I can't see it personally, I think there's too much weight on the scales in favour of him choosing Wales.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 19, 2023 23:40:47 GMT
Guys we've literally just gone through this whole process with Popov and Luke Harris. Taking comments out of context and jumping to conclusions, can we please give it a rest
There's literally nothing in this situation that suggests he's about to go and join up with England, and until there is can we just not be quite so reactionary
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Post by wirralwelsh on Mar 20, 2023 0:57:31 GMT
Born in England + lived in England all his life + English Mum does not make him Welsh through and through, it makes him a bit Welsh. I don't think he's going to make it with England though so not one to worry about.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 20, 2023 9:30:10 GMT
Born in England + lived in England all his life + English Mum does not make him Welsh through and through, it makes him a bit Welsh. I don't think he's going to make it with England though so not one to worry about. Not how nationality works, and I'm speaking from experience on that one |
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Post by redwallnews on Mar 20, 2023 10:37:10 GMT
He literally says how proud he is to play for Wales etc etc.
No worries on this one whatsoever.
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Post by dai on Mar 20, 2023 10:41:56 GMT
The issue we have here is that we've been dishing out call ups / caps to other players in the past who didn't have much experience at senior level either - Levitt, Smith, Ampadu, Woodburn, Harris, Colwill etc etc
Maybe players like Savage and Campbell for example feel they are good enough to be in the senior squad.
Savage is now a League 1 player, yet we were calling players like Levitt up when he was just a Utd u21 player.
There does seem to be a lack of consistency from the FAW in terms of player progression within the ages.
If Ampadu, Levitt, Woodburn, Harris were could enough to be fast tracked to the senior squad, then you could argue that Savage, Campbell and maybe others are as well.
It really does feel that there are major inconsistencies in the FAW's approach to call ups and player management.
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Post by iot on Mar 20, 2023 11:15:06 GMT
I don't see what the issue is personally. Are you saying that if some players are called up with limited senior experience, we should do the same for all players for the sake of consistency? That's nonsense in my view.
These things are done on a case by case basis and with consideration of what represents the best balance at the time. Ampadu became involved after playing for Exeter at 15 and playing a few games / involved in Chelsea's first team squad, with big things predicted for him. Woodburn came in when we had very little options in those forward areas (other than Bale and Lawrence etc.) and he was considered one of the brightest prospects in England. Both of those and Brooks all came in together at the end of the Coleman era when it was clear we needed to freshen things up, so he brought in the brightest prospects we had at the time (that's the type of context missing from your post when you lumber all these debutants from different eras together).
Giggs integrated Levitt when we didn't have many options in that position, so it was a chance to give him a taste of it without having to rely on him for any important matches. I'm sure many other managers would have gone down the u21 route. Harris is currently considered one of the brightest prospects around and is already too good for u21 football. We already have Harris and James in the squad, so it may have been decided that represented better balance than including another couple of novices.
A case could be made for including all of those players in the u21s or in the seniors, and it's left to the manager to make a decision on those marginal calls. I don't think he should be expected to take every single young prospect or none at all. I don't think there's any issue with him deciding which ones should be integrated now, and which ones should wait a little longer.
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Post by dai on Mar 20, 2023 11:23:42 GMT
The issue is, like I stated, that there are inconsistencies within the FAW progression ladder, which could cause players to question call ups and at what level they are called up.
What I'm saying is, like I wrote, is that some players may feel that they are capable of making the step up to seniors based on the historic behaviour of the FAW.
Only half of those players fast tracked have actually come good. Levitt, Woodburn, Colwill, Smith etc were all fast tracked to the seniors despite having limited club senior experience, and have ultimately been proven to not be good enough.
You could argue that other younger players would look at that situation and think 'Well if X,Y and Z got called up then I'm good enough too'.
Campbell for example has been a stand out player at youth and u21 level, yet hasn't been given a chance at senior level at the FAW, even when we've been struggling going forward.
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Post by iot on Mar 20, 2023 11:35:17 GMT
What I'm saying is that to say there should be 100% consistency (which presumably means picking every prospect or none at all in case their feelings are hurt) is a nonsense.
I'm sure all of these players aren't as precious and petty as you make them out to be. None of them should expect to be called up just because some other prospects have been. It is more likely to do a lot more good than harm because youngsters can see a clear progression pathway.
'Only half of those players fast tracked have actually come good. Levitt, Woodburn, Colwill, Smith etc were all fast tracked to the seniors despite having limited club senior experience, and have ultimately been proven to not be good enough.'
And? What's your point? That no youngsters should be called up until they've proven themselves to be top players? That we should have started Bale and Ramsey as early as we did. As a small nation, we have to take more punts than others. With any youngsters, some will succeed while most won't make it to their highest potential. All manager know that, but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
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Post by dai on Mar 20, 2023 11:54:34 GMT
You'd be surprised................I won't divulge further into what I've heard on players' opinions (or preciousness and pettiness like you've put).
And where did I say the FAW should be 100% consistent? I said there are inconsistencies, you're making things up now to back your argument.
I've already made my points clear enough tbh.
You obviously think the FAW is a well oiled machine, being run completely perfect.....far from the case.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 20, 2023 15:05:59 GMT
If you have heard things that back up your point you should at least give us hints, otherwise it comes across as speculation and taking your word for it
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Post by iot on Mar 20, 2023 15:51:02 GMT
'You'd be surprised................I won't divulge further into what I've heard on players' opinions (or preciousness and pettiness like you've put).'
Well, we'll have to rely on your sources for that one! I think it's far more likely that Chem Campbell doesn't want to be part of the squad because he doesn't feel particularly Welsh and is holding out for an England call-up, or that he's not particularly interested in international football altogether, rather than it being a grudge borne out of other youngsters getting called up. Charlie Savage clearly thinks it's better to focus on competitive club football for a team battling for survival (and his first meaningful stint in senior football) than playing an u21 friendly. Personally, I think that's in everyone's favour, although the situation could definitely have been managed better. Nonetheless, that seems to be a much more plausible reason than him having a tiff because other youngsters have been called up.
'And where did I say the FAW should be 100% consistent? I said there are inconsistencies, you're making things up now to back your argument.'
Eh, I don't get your point then? The situation is that Page has included some youngsters in the senior squad, whilst others have gone to the u21s. You're suggesting that's an issue because of the inconsistencies it creates. So what precisely should they be doing then? I can only think your point is that they should either be calling them all up or none at all for the sake of consistency. If not, what is your point? Where do you think they're going wrong and what do you think they should be doing instead re the youth policy?
'You obviously think the FAW is a well oiled machine, being run completely perfect.....far from the case.'
Not at all, just trying to understand your point and what your criticism is. Some people's first instinct seems to be to criticise. If you're going to criticise others, it's only fair for you to explain the reasons.
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Post by rushy on Mar 20, 2023 16:09:54 GMT
Let's look at the whole picture here, a young player receives a call up to the senior squad for the first time, who decides of his own accord to turn down not only the honour but the opportunity to be part of the international squad he supposedly wants to represent.
That opens up so many views of how this decision can be seen imo, for example this questions the player's commitment, it makes more senior players such as Hedges , Collins and others probably, look at the situation with disdain, but more of a concern, it does not give a good impression of the level of respect and authority Page has within the players who are eligible for selection.
This is where Page has to get a grip, show leadership and create a newer version of the 'together stronger' mentality where players know where they stand, are comfortable with the system and have pride in the shirt, because in the WC we were simply lifeless .
The issue surrounding a players eligibility does not matter, I do not care where players are born , the important thing is showing they are committed , focused professional in their attitude.
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Post by jenksta on Mar 20, 2023 16:39:44 GMT
Rushy. Hes turned down a Wales U21 call up for a couple of meaningless friendlies. To play in a couple of games his side must win to even have any remote hope of avoiding relegation.
He HAS NOT turned down a call up to the senior squad as he hasn't yet been called up.
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Post by rushy on Mar 20, 2023 18:46:36 GMT
Wow.. I'll get my coat !!  |
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Post by dylanjunecymru on Mar 26, 2023 19:20:28 GMT
Huge performance from him today, massive 3 points against 2nd in the league sheff Wednesday.
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 18, 2023 16:52:25 GMT
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Post by morg on May 18, 2023 18:23:50 GMT
Came over well in that interview I thought. Seems like a grounded, hard working lad who appreciates the opportunities he's had. Good to hear that Wales is front and centre of his thinking too. Hopefully a loan move to a Championship club next season. Maybe his dad could put in a word for him at Leicester!
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Post by morg on Jul 12, 2023 17:04:58 GMT
On at half time in today's friendly v Leeds and made captain. Sounds like Dan James was lively also.
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Post by morg on Jul 19, 2023 19:29:41 GMT
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Post by marsvolta on Jul 20, 2023 15:02:15 GMT
Apparently he’s off to Reading on a permanent contract.
Probably for the best.Another youngster playing regularly in League 1 as opposed to going out on loan all the time.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 22, 2023 15:42:07 GMT
Apparently he’s off to Reading on a permanent contract. Probably for the best.Another youngster playing regularly in League 1 as opposed to going out on loan all the time. Smart career move, just got to nail himself down as a starter and he won't be far off the National team |
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Post by surge on Jul 23, 2023 11:41:12 GMT
Apparently he’s off to Reading on a permanent contract. Probably for the best.Another youngster playing regularly in League 1 as opposed to going out on loan all the time. Smart career move, just got to nail himself down as a starter and he won't be far off the National team I'm not sure I agree. There are very good coaches down the ladder and being settled at a good club has obvious benefits, but the variety of learning from going out on loan to different sides is surely better than being stuck with a bad situation? |
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