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Post by jimexotic on Dec 11, 2022 21:21:55 GMT
Let's be honest, we do tend to go on about the 58 team quite a lot but it's nothing like what England do with anything they do remotely well in and it's a completely different kettle of fish with us, that's the best we've ever had and best we're ever likely to have for the forseeable. I am slightly concerned that we'll Euro 2016 will get done to death though, we need to move on from that, use it as an inspiration but not something that hangs over us and defines us for the next 30 years. Do we? I'd say we go on a bit too much about 2016, not 1958 We have a brand named after them that provide the uniform for our fans that has since become almost as symbolic with the Welsh national side as a Gareth Bale celebration. I'm all for it, I like it but people could easily point the finger at us, not that I care. |
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Post by insertname on Dec 11, 2022 21:29:30 GMT
Ajax and the Dutch haven’t won an international trophy since time immemorial so I’d say they might want to try playing on grass… Outside the top 3 their league is on the equivalent of League One. They've got a massive amount of their academy in the national team. Fair enough but until they win something making kids train on concrete is going to look a bit pointless, eg I'd rather copy what Spain and Barcelona have been doing because in recent times their approach has yielded big rewards for club and country. From what I understand they don't need to make kinds train on concrete to get those results. |
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Post by saturn9 on Dec 11, 2022 21:36:59 GMT
That Ajax side that LVG took to a European Cup in 95 was something special. Season after they got to the final again losing to Juventus. Long rumoured that the Italians were helped along the way with shall we say 'a little extra something' allegedly 😉
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Post by fiveattheback on Dec 11, 2022 21:46:31 GMT
Do we? I'd say we go on a bit too much about 2016, not 1958 We have a brand named after them that provide the uniform for our fans that has since become almost as symbolic with the Welsh national side as a Gareth Bale celebration. I'm all for it, I like it but people could easily point the finger at us, not that I care. I'm not sure that's the same as going on about the team though? It's not like we constantly talk about them and their success, if anything we spend more time talking about our failures. Your casual Welsh fan could probably only name John Charles and one or two others from that side whereas some of the defeats are ingrained in the national psyche |
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Post by jonathan on Dec 11, 2022 23:34:25 GMT
Evening gents, I have dipped "in and out" of this site since we were drawn together for the 2016 Euros, and enjoy it - not one really for "chat sites", social media etc, but this one kind of struck a chord with me, as your passion for your national side reflects mine, albeit different sides  Liverpool v Man Utd (Cardiff v Swansea) who cares? England/Wales are playing San Marino U21's in a friendly! Plus, growing up, I supported a team which had a genius called Ceri Hughes. I think it's fair to say England are not everyone's cup of tea on here However, if anyone on here thinks it was same old England last night, ie coming unstuck against the first good team we played, Southgate is holding us back, we always have easy runs etc etc etc, clearly haven't been paying attention, ie not watching England pre 2016 (and why would you, as we only live rent free" in the heads of the "bitters" the wrong side of Hadrians Wall). So England relied on penalty's and didn't look like scoring in open play? Really? Firstly, don't penalty's count? Secondly, come on, England never looked a threat in open play? The French defenders diving in would suggest differently. Look, England came up short against an elite nation, but it feels different this time - we went toe to toe with France (as opposed to clinging on for dear life to get to penalties) and I thought, were the better team. It wasn't a mental thing, a technical thing, a tactical thing - sometimes, when two good opponents meet, one comes out on top, one doesn't. Simple as that. Southgate? Well, after the Iceland game, if you'd said England would reach a semi, a final (losing on penalties) and gutted to lose to probably the best team in the World, you'd have been laughed at. Easy draws? Didn't we beat Croatia, Germany and Denmark in the Euro's? And plenty of teams will get supposed "easy" routes now, as everyone is capable of beating everyone else. They're not easy, just not "traditional". You guys have some good young players going forward, and for god's sake, don't you guys turn into the "bitters" - if you are, then it is going to be a nervous 10 years for you - you might be right, we might not win anything, but I think we can all agree, we will probably come mighty close  If we do, can anyone recommend a nice hotel in Scotland |
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Post by insertname on Dec 11, 2022 23:40:05 GMT
Fair enough but until they win something making kids train on concrete is going to look a bit pointless, eg I'd rather copy what Spain and Barcelona have been doing because in recent times their approach has yielded big rewards for club and country. From what I understand they don't need to make kinds train on concrete to get those results. That Ajax side that LVG took to a European Cup in 95 was something special. Season after they got to the final again losing to Juventus. Long rumoured that the Italians were helped along the way with shall we say 'a little extra something' allegedly 😉 They were but that's a long time ago now! The world moves on and coaching methods (and coaches themselves!) get old and stale. |
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Dec 11, 2022 23:46:41 GMT
Giroud has won 118 caps for France and scored 53 international goals.
That's pretty good, IMO.
He's also won the World Cup, the Champions League, the Europa League, the FA Cup (4 times), Serie A title etc.
He's now 36 and keeps scoring important goals. He's a pain in the neck for defenders.
I wonder what counts as 'world class'? Is there a squad of such players, or is it a minimalist, select group?
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Dec 11, 2022 23:50:42 GMT
I should have added that the above is a response to p claude's earlier, dismissive post on this thread that Giroud is not world class "by any stretch".
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 12, 2022 6:27:26 GMT
Giroud would get into most teams at this WC and improve them. Ironically, the one he probably wouldn’t get into is England even though they could have done with someone as clinical as him Saturday night. Maybe the Sun should have featured Olivier on their billboard ads in Paris instead of…
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Post by pclaude on Dec 12, 2022 8:25:22 GMT
Most people would say world class is someone in the best 2-3 players in the world in their position. Giroud has never been that. He’s not even France’s first choice 9.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 12, 2022 9:36:00 GMT
No they wouldn't. World class is a player who can consistently deliver top performances at the elite level, which Giroud has been doing for some time now
Also Stones and Maguire are nowhere near the level of Varane and Upamecano imo
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Post by morg on Dec 12, 2022 12:51:48 GMT
Always thought of world class as anyone who had ever been capped by Earth in an inter planetary fixture (dependent on either football playing life being found elsewhere or Earth's colonisation of other planets etc). Non playing squad member might also qualify.
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 13, 2022 19:45:13 GMT
One foot in the final. Cracking noise again
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Dec 13, 2022 20:03:04 GMT
Seriously, how have SO many Argentina fans managed to acquire SO many WC match tickets? And how expensive is it for them to get to Qatar from South America? Is there a large worldwide Argentine diaspora who have all jumped on board planes to Doha?
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 13, 2022 20:31:34 GMT
I’d remortgage the house and travel half way across the world if Cymru were doing this to be fair
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Post by dai on Dec 13, 2022 20:58:22 GMT
Seriously, how have SO many Argentina fans managed to acquire SO many WC match tickets? And how expensive is it for them to get to Qatar from South America? Is there a large worldwide Argentine diaspora who have all jumped on board planes to Doha? I've wondered this too, especially considering 40% or something of Argentinians live in poverty. Tbh, this WC has been bizarre for fan attendance. A lot of the wealthier countries have had poor attendances while the poorer countries seem to have done better. Subsidised by FIFA? |
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Post by hooky on Dec 13, 2022 21:00:17 GMT
Just looked up Copa America history and was surprised to see that Argentina and Uruguay (both with 15 wins each) are way ahead of Brazil (9 wins)
We all gush over Brazil (helped by their WC history) but populations:
Uruguay: 3.4mn
Argentina: 47mn
Brazil: 217mn
tells its own story
Has been said before but Uruguay have been simply incredible
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 13, 2022 21:15:07 GMT
Plus the fact that Uruguay won the Olympics twice before the World Cup existed, when it was considered the defacto World Cup (this is why they have 4 stars above their badge), and given that they won a cup of former World Champions in the 80s too, they are actually the most decorated international side in the world
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Post by daearegwr on Dec 14, 2022 8:56:24 GMT
Seriously, how have SO many Argentina fans managed to acquire SO many WC match tickets? And how expensive is it for them to get to Qatar from South America? Is there a large worldwide Argentine diaspora who have all jumped on board planes to Doha? I've wondered this too, especially considering 40% or something of Argentinians live in poverty. Tbh, this WC has been bizarre for fan attendance. A lot of the wealthier countries have had poor attendances while the poorer countries seem to have done better. Subsidised by FIFA? I doubt most of them are from Argentina. When we were over for the Wales games you'd see Argentina shirts everywhere in Qatar on people from the Middle East, India, Asia etc. The Messi effect isn't it. |
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Post by Albert on Dec 14, 2022 10:21:42 GMT
Pretty sure it was reported that the Argentinian Fa paid for their hard-core fans to attend after the loss to Saudi .
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 14, 2022 10:26:59 GMT
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Post by robin1864 on Dec 14, 2022 20:51:06 GMT
Watching Morocco in this tournament has given me June 2016 vibes. A glimpse of what could have been.
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Post by dai on Dec 14, 2022 21:36:18 GMT
It's gotten on my t*ts how the English pundits have started spinning this 'missed opportunity' storyline now. Morocco gave France a better game than what England did. France were the only decent team they faced and lost. Couldn't beat USA when the Dutch took care of them reasonably comfortable. I just can't get over how little self-awareness they have.
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Post by insertname on Dec 14, 2022 21:45:07 GMT
You would think they would be grateful that France spared them the embarrassment of getting beat by Morocco wouldn’t you?
Anyway, on a lighter note:
France: 4 World Cup finals in 25 years, 2 wins.
England: 2 golden generations in 25 years, 0 World Cup wins, 0 World Cup finals, 1 semi final. Which, coincidentally is the same number as Morocco.
I make it that if Argentina win the World Cup on Sunday England will be the biggest of the traditional power house nations not to win a World Cup since France’s first win. Just ahead of the Dutch, who at least have a final to their name in that time.
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Post by dai on Dec 14, 2022 22:12:10 GMT
I'd also chuck in the Euro's to highlight their failures. Considering the resources they have, they have underachieved massively. But, I think they're getting closer though........maybe only a matter of time like I said before.
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Post by insertname on Dec 14, 2022 22:26:29 GMT
I'd also chuck in the Euro's to highlight their failures. Considering the resources they have, they have underachieved massively. But, I think they're getting closer though........maybe only a matter of time like I said before. The Euros they can claim a final in recent history. Their World Cup record they don’t even have that. They are closer than for a very long time but like I said they have to overcome fine margins and sheer random chance. Just having a golden generation guarantees you nothing as Belgium have just proven. |
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Post by jimexotic on Dec 14, 2022 23:37:56 GMT
I think England have an amazing amount of talent at their disposal apart from one area, centre back. We'd kill for a Harry Maguire or John Stones and either would probably be brilliant for us but for England I'm just never convinced by either of them and even more strange is the lack of decent young centre backs coming through, I honestly can't think of any young British centre back that looks like they're going to be top level international class. Maybe Ben White, he's 25, other than that who is coming through? It's also a concern for Wales of course but we're not expecting to win World Cups and Euros, England are and I don't believe they have enough elsewhere that they can field at any one time that can compensate for the lack of a reliable and commanding centre back.
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Post by bale-droed on Dec 15, 2022 1:56:59 GMT
Agreed. But we’ve got big Ethan Ampadu. When he’s 25 superstar cb
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 16, 2022 14:40:30 GMT
I'd say the world over there aren't too many top class CBs who you'd call really top defenders
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Post by marsvolta on Dec 17, 2022 9:49:11 GMT
I wonder where Morocco go from here?
The expectations of the fans will have risen massively after getting to the semis, a la Wales 2016.
Looking at some of their fans in interviews outside the ground, many of them didn’t seem as, er, rational as us so I don’t think going back to getting knocked out early will go down too well.
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Liverpool v Man Utd (Cardiff v Swansea) who cares? England/Wales are playing San Marino U21's in a friendly! Plus, growing up, I supported a team which had a genius called Ceri Hughes. 
If we do, can anyone recommend a nice hotel in Scotland 
