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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 18, 2022 22:00:46 GMT
Mbappe or Haaland gentleman? Mbappe all day for me. Gutted for the French, they have an abundance of young talent emerging though. Think ZZ could take them up a level again. Mbappe has done more so far in his career, but the way Haaland has started the season this year is frightening. I think Haaland will get more goals, but Mbappe's all round play is better |
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Post by insertname on Dec 18, 2022 22:03:45 GMT
He’s been doing it years. There was some gamesmanship from him in the copa America iirc. I blame France because they surely would have known this and played with a straight bat in response. You can’t do that against Argentina and you can’t expect the ref to sort it out, you have to match them and France just seemed to meekly accept it. Should have refused to go and get the ball and have Martinez do it Yeah you have to try and strike back in some way. Good shout that, put it back in their court. Throwing the ball away, coming well off his line for one of the pens and the excessive celebrating only three penalties in were all poor sportsmanship. The ref was poor in keeping a handle on it too. Great spectacle up to the pens but given Argentina’s conduct in the knock out games they’re a thoroughly unlikeable and unsportsman-like bunch (even Messi came across as a right knob after the Dutch game) and as a result I’m one of the few who would have preferred France to win. Not that they care what I think, mind! |
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Post by saturn9 on Dec 18, 2022 22:25:40 GMT
What's the score behind the Dutch/Arg beef? Don't think there was to much trash talk in any pre game comments.
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Post by insertname on Dec 18, 2022 23:55:41 GMT
I think it dates back to the game in 1998 which was something of a feisty affair with the Dutch winning late on. Seems to be something of a burgeoning international rivalry. But it could also just be that the Dutch tend to have a fairly combustible temperament and the Argentinians, at least as far as football are concerned, have a tradition of shithousery on the pitch making a match up between the two just naturally a potentially toxic combination.
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Post by jimexotic on Dec 19, 2022 0:22:23 GMT
Whoever Argentina play they often do stuff like this, in 1998 it was England and Holland, in 2006 they tried it with Germany and it backfired with the Germans beating them, giving it back to them and Sorin getting in a strop over some of the German players mocking the size of his manhood. 4 years later the Germans battered them and put an end to Maradona's moronic time as manager, I'm pretty certain that the Germans were openly very fired up for that game. I find Argentina very hard to like, I hate Romero, I think he's an utter coward, their fans annoy me and I just don't like how overly emotional the teams always seem to be, almost like children at times.
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Post by insertname on Dec 19, 2022 0:55:57 GMT
Yeah, it’s just before my time but the Argentina 1990 side aren’t fondly remembered from what I have heard either. Then you have Maradona in 1994. They have given the game two of it’s greatest, possibly THE greatest players and yet they have given the game some of it’s worst teams. Uruguay too seem to have a similar sort of temperament, almost that I’m at risk of generalising that part of the world. Odd that Brazil has a reputation for flamboyance and playing with a smile on their face and their two close neighbours are renowned for bringing much less joie de vivre to the game.
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Post by robin1864 on Dec 19, 2022 11:36:25 GMT
Even though they lost, France tonight were a good example of utilising 5 subs and bringing on chaotic players who can disrupt opposition. Kolo Muani was a chaotic nuisance and a changed France's attacking dynamic which should be held in my opinion in the same weight as creative players. Shame we don't have any of them! We probably do have chaotic players, we'd never know for sure though because Page has an aversion to making timely changes. |
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Post by surge on Dec 19, 2022 11:57:59 GMT
Top football nations review major international tournaments, both on their own performance and that of other sides, to try and improve for next time, where do you think Cymru/Wales should be looking and what would you like us to pick up from others going forward?
From my perspective:
Australia have achieved the most compared to their resources, France have managed the tournament the best (even making bold, effective subs in the final) and Argentina enjoyed the pressure and kept believing despite the set-back in group fixtures game - the 2016 triple if you will.
Sides like Croatia and Van Gaal's Netherlands always impress, Morocco have been one of the stars of the tournament and Japan perhaps won't get recognition they deserve.
There are perhaps more obvious examples of sides to look at to try and work out what went wrong: Denmark, Germany, Portugal, Mexico...ourselves?
I think England managed the media (Page and others didn't once we arrived in Qatar) and more negative fans well, but Southgate's side was properly challenged in one game, made poor use of their talented bench in that fixture and went on to blame the ref in immediate aftermath despite it being in their hands. They're clearly building something good in between tournaments but this showing was their first poor tournament for a while.
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Post by rushy on Dec 19, 2022 12:46:06 GMT
We are very limited in quality, therefore we probably have a first eleven with two or three options as alternatives, whether there are some youngsters coming through that can make an impact is open to question but we could certainly do with some.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 19, 2022 15:54:51 GMT
Germany, Denmark, Uruguay, Poland, Mexico, Belgium, Serbia, Uruguay all underperformed. They will all have been considered to underperform much more than we have
Sometimes it's good to get your head out of the bubble of Welsh football - no one is talking about us as the biggest underperformers. Germany, Belgium & Denmark will get that accolade. Pre-tournament I didn't see many people outside of Wales predicting us to get out of the group either. So despite the disappointment of it all, we performed in line with what the world expected from us
One clear commonality between us and some of those teams listed above, is that we are carrying too many older players or players that don't have energy to get around the pitch. The teams that overperformed; Morocco, Croatia, Japan, Australia, Japan, Canada - they all had pace and legs all over the pitch. That is the blueprint we need to work towards
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Post by rushy on Dec 19, 2022 17:01:39 GMT
Germany, Belgium, Serbia I would say underperformed, the others arguably were not good enough , however the only teams of those quoted that failed to win a game were Denmark and Serbia alongside us, but at least they scored from open play , as did the others, it was our performances not the results that mattered.
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Post by welwyn on Dec 20, 2022 14:50:08 GMT
Player of the tournament: I'd be very nervous about giving it to Messi just because they won and he's Messi. But even taking the fact of who he is out of it, he has genuinely been a class apart of everyone in this tournament. I would be tempted to say Amrabat purely because I also look at the back-end because attacking players almost always get the individual awards but I just can't NOT give it to Messi.
Young Player: Honestly didn't realise Enzo was young enough to be eligible for it. Would like to give Gvardiol and Bellingham honourable mentions though.
Goalkeeper: Sorry but I simply can't give it to Martinez. For me it has always been Livakovic, was brilliant all tournament.
Team of the Tournament: 4-2-3-1 Livakovic, Hakimi, Saiss, Gvardiol, Acuna. Amrabat, Modric. Saka, Messi, Mbappe, Alvarez. Tough on Griezmann but Alvarez coming in to partner Messi completely changed the dynamic of the Argentine side.
Team of the Tournament, no more than 1 player per team: 4-3-1-2 (Split Strikers). Noppert. Walker, Silva, Soutter, A. Davies. Endo, Amrabat, Modric. Kudus, Messi, Mbappe. Was really tough. Cheating a bit with LB. Walker v Mbappe was one of the better defesive performances of the tournament and Soutter was unlucky not to get into the team of the tournament full-stop.
Coach of the tournament: Hajime Moriyasu. Against both Germany and Spain, he made half-time tactical changes that completely flipped the game.
Goal of the tournament: For me, it's the Weghorst equaliser, just ahead of Richarlison's overhead, Tchouaméni's banger against England or Al-Dawsari's absolute screamer against Argentina. The tip goes to Weghorst purely because to have the bottle to not only attempt that, but to execute it, when it is literally your last chance to stay in a World Cup, is obscene. Quite possibly my favourite goal I have seen at a WC. It might well have been Vincent Aboubaker's scoop if it wasn't for the fact it was obvious he only tried it because he thought he was 5 yards off (because he wouldn't have been aware of the defender way behind him playing him on)
Game of the tournament: Both the Final & Argentina v the Dutch suffer because of the first 75 minutes being so bland. I think a lot of the best games were in the group. Serbia 2-3 Swiss with everything on the line was let down by a bland 15 minutes at the death. Portugal 3-2 Ghana was mental but was poor until HT. It's between Cameroon 3-3 Serbia, which was brilliant but was very much game of two halves with Serbia dominating the first and then Camerron the second. For me though, it was Saudi Arabia 2-1 Argentina which had everything, including about 300 disallowed goals, as well as the shock that really kicked the tournament into life.
Did the best team win?: Yep. From the minute Alvarez started the 2nd game, they are the best team in the tournament.
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Post by melynwy on Dec 20, 2022 15:20:40 GMT
Team of the Tournament, no more than 1 player per team: ... A. Davies Good call, he probably had the best World Cup of all our keepers...  ! |
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Post by saturn9 on Dec 20, 2022 17:06:07 GMT
Germany, Belgium, Serbia I would say underperformed, the others arguably were not good enough , however the only teams of those quoted that failed to win a game were Denmark and Serbia alongside us, but at least they scored from open play , as did the others, it was our performances not the results that mattered. I had high hopes for Serbia, but just as they always do they go out at the first stage. It's alleged that Vlahovic enjoyed himself anyways😉 |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 20, 2022 17:25:36 GMT
Team of the Tournament, no more than 1 player per team: 4-3-1-2 (Split Strikers). Noppert. Walker, Silva, Soutter, A. Davies. Endo, Amrabat, Modric. Kudus, Messi, Mbappe. Was really tough. Cheating a bit with LB. Walker v Mbappe was one of the better defesive performances of the tournament and Soutter was unlucky not to get into the team of the tournament full-stop. For me it's; Szczezny Dumfries-Rodri-Gvardiol-Robinson Amrabat-Bellingham Messi-Bruno-Mbappe Richarlison |
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Post by gwernybwch on Dec 20, 2022 21:02:58 GMT
Game of the tournament: Both the Final & Argentina v the Dutch suffer because of the first 75 minutes being so bland. I think a lot of the best games were in the group. Serbia 2-3 Swiss with everything on the line was let down by a bland 15 minutes at the death. Portugal 3-2 Ghana was mental but was poor until HT. It's between Cameroon 3-3 Serbia, which was brilliant but was very much game of two halves with Serbia dominating the first and then Camerron the second. For me though, it was Saudi Arabia 2-1 Argentina which had everything, including about 300 disallowed goals, as well as the shock that really kicked the tournament into life. Games that I enjoyed were - USA v Wales - one well coached side v one awfully coached side (I'll let you decide who was who) Belgium v Morocco - the 'golden generation' is brought to an end by an emerging football nation Croatia v Canada - Croatia picking their one of many systems depending on the opposition v f**k it, we are going to stick our plan and just gonna go for it South Korea v Ghana - two very different sides going toe-to-toe England v France - just like to watch England lose Netherlands v Argentina - shithousery at its finest |
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 20, 2022 21:26:53 GMT
There were some great one sided displays as well:
Spain v Costa Rica - passing masterclass
Brazil v S Korea - full throttle samba style
Portugal v Swiss - probably the best team performance of the tournament
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