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Post by jbt95 on Mar 25, 2023 23:30:57 GMT
Those were brave substitutions, 3 at 70 mins. Anyone know any other welsh manager thats done that? In a qualifier!! And it paid off 60 mins you mean and I personally thought it was negative. Why did we start with the experienced trio of Ramsey, James and Wilson and sub them all off on the hour with Moore making way 10 later? Until we scored I was actually annoyed. |
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Post by underwood on Mar 25, 2023 23:36:33 GMT
Those were brave substitutions, 3 at 70 mins. Anyone know any other welsh manager thats done that? In a qualifier!! And it paid off 60 mins you mean and I personally thought it was negative. Why did we start with the experienced trio of Ramsey, James and Wilson and sub them all off on the hour with Moore making way 10 later? Until we scored I was actually annoyed. Probably because he intends to start all of them on Tuesday. |
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Post by barryscorcher on Mar 25, 2023 23:41:57 GMT
I didn’t see or listen to the game. Family stuff today. What’s the story because Nathan Blake delighted with result but said should have been 3 or 4 to Croatia. That’s no bloody good. But I’m chuffed for staff and fans out in Split. Broadhead take a bow. I just watched the extended highlights back and although it was one-sided, Croatia probably created 3 clear cut chances all game (it felt like more). The goal, the chance for Kovacic which he skied, and the one Ward got a strong hand to. Perisic hit the crossbar too but it would’ve been spectacular and can’t really count as a clear cut opportunity. Ward also made a few comfortable saves you’d expect him to make. So whilst we were very clearly second best (nowt wrong with that against a side like Croatia away), it wasn’t like they were creating clearcut chances at will. We also should‘ve equalised much earlier than we did through Dan James in what was a much more positive second period. So all in all I personally think it’s a positive on the whole performance-wise (just), obviously helped by the incredibly positive final score. It’s also a much-needed confidence boost after the World Cup - and we all know how important results like this can be in qualifying, when you pull it out of the bag despite the less than perfect performance (thinking of Andorra 2015, Belarus 2021, Azerbaijan 2019). It’s all about momentum and results like that build that elusive habit of finding a way to win/not lose despite not deserving to. If we back it up with a win on Tuesday I’ll be absolutely buzzing with a 2 double header that would’ve exceeded all reasonable expectations |
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Post by dai on Mar 25, 2023 23:43:25 GMT
Really struggling to think when was the last time we achieved that sort of result with a last minute goal? Must be rarer than rocking horse sh*te. A draw tonight exceeded all expectations.........mad.
Even though the result is fantastic, the performance was still pretty dire, and papers over the persistent issues at hand here.
I really don't think Page deservers much credit for the win. The subs were obviously done to keep Ramsey, James, Wilson fit for Latvia, so hardly a tactical masterstroke. We as a team became worse after the 3 subs, so the goal was a complete fluke.
For Latvia, I really hope he becomes braver in his team selection. James, Wilson and Moore looked off imo. James in particular looked a shadow of the player he was, hardly took a man on all night. I'd like to see us start with a few of the youngsters and Bradshaw. Neco looked very uncomfortable at LB, so maybe bring Fox in, and move Neco up the pitch. I wouldn't start Moore either, not because of him, but because we hardly ever play to his strengths. I don't think he had a single cross to have a nibble at tonight, must be frustrating for him.
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Post by jbt95 on Mar 25, 2023 23:43:27 GMT
60 mins you mean and I personally thought it was negative. Why did we start with the experienced trio of Ramsey, James and Wilson and sub them all off on the hour with Moore making way 10 later? Until we scored I was actually annoyed. Probably because he intends to start all of them on Tuesday. Yes but why not be bold and chose a different line up? Have half of Ramsey Wilson James & Moore on the pitch and half on the bench, instead of basically throwing away the game at 60mins. Poor mentality. We got lucky tonight in scoring so late on. I’ll take it of course, but this was a qualifier not a friendly. |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 26, 2023 0:00:27 GMT
Really struggling to think when was the last time we achieved that sort of result with a last minute goal? Must be rarer than rocking horse sh*te. A draw tonight exceeded all expectations.........mad. Even though the result is fantastic, the performance was still pretty dire, and papers over the persistent issues at hand here. I really don't think Page deservers much credit for the win. The subs were obviously done to keep Ramsey, James, Wilson fit for Latvia, so hardly a tactical masterstroke. We as a team became worse after the 3 subs, so the goal was a complete fluke. For Latvia, I really hope he becomes braver in his team selection. James, Wilson and Moore looked off imo. James in particular looked a shadow of the player he was, hardly took a man on all night. I'd like to see us start with a few of the youngsters and Bradshaw. Neco looked very uncomfortable at LB, so maybe bring Fox in, and move Neco up the pitch. I wouldn't start Moore either, not because of him, but because we hardly ever play to his strengths. I don't think he had a single cross to have a nibble at tonight, must be frustrating for him. Up there with a draw in Germany or Belgium |
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Post by welshowl on Mar 26, 2023 0:01:08 GMT
Really struggling to think when was the last time we achieved that sort of result with a last minute goal? Must be rarer than rocking horse sh*te. A draw tonight exceeded all expectations.........mad. Even though the result is fantastic, the performance was still pretty dire, and papers over the persistent issues at hand here. I really don't think Page deservers much credit for the win. The subs were obviously done to keep Ramsey, James, Wilson fit for Latvia, so hardly a tactical masterstroke. We as a team became worse after the 3 subs, so the goal was a complete fluke. For Latvia, I really hope he becomes braver in his team selection. James, Wilson and Moore looked off imo. James in particular looked a shadow of the player he was, hardly took a man on all night. I'd like to see us start with a few of the youngsters and Bradshaw. Neco looked very uncomfortable at LB, so maybe bring Fox in, and move Neco up the pitch. I wouldn't start Moore either, not because of him, but because we hardly ever play to his strengths. I don't think he had a single cross to have a nibble at tonight, must be frustrating for him. Half of a sentence when Dai is happy  But yes, agree that it was a plan to bring those three off the field to save them for Latvia. We were lucky tonight, but we'll all happily take the total bonus of a point. It will still count for nothing unless we win on Tuesday.
Got to start Kieffer on Tuesday as we will be further up the field. Don't need DJ for a team likely to play deep and frustrate. Like the suggestion of Fox coming in - dropping Morrell then if Neco goes further forward? Can't begin the game with tonight's starting line up, we need more energy / fit players
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Post by njdragon on Mar 26, 2023 0:01:14 GMT
Those were brave substitutions, 3 at 70 mins. Anyone know any other welsh manager thats done that? In a qualifier!! And it paid off 60 mins you mean and I personally thought it was negative. Why did we start with the experienced trio of Ramsey, James and Wilson and sub them all off on the hour with Moore making way 10 later? Until we scored I was actually annoyed. Even braver, won us the game |
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Post by jbt95 on Mar 26, 2023 0:03:30 GMT
60 mins you mean and I personally thought it was negative. Why did we start with the experienced trio of Ramsey, James and Wilson and sub them all off on the hour with Moore making way 10 later? Until we scored I was actually annoyed. Even braver, won us the game I can’t agree with it being brave, sorry. Feels like Page didn’t actually care about the result tonight. Tuesday is the bigger game of course, and I’m not one to complain about players and managers but it’s questionable. |
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Post by pclaude on Mar 26, 2023 0:22:33 GMT
Really struggling to think when was the last time we achieved that sort of result with a last minute goal? Must be rarer than rocking horse sh*te. A draw tonight exceeded all expectations.........mad. Even though the result is fantastic, the performance was still pretty dire, and papers over the persistent issues at hand here. I really don't think Page deservers much credit for the win. The subs were obviously done to keep Ramsey, James, Wilson fit for Latvia, so hardly a tactical masterstroke. We as a team became worse after the 3 subs, so the goal was a complete fluke. For Latvia, I really hope he becomes braver in his team selection. James, Wilson and Moore looked off imo. James in particular looked a shadow of the player he was, hardly took a man on all night. I'd like to see us start with a few of the youngsters and Bradshaw. Neco looked very uncomfortable at LB, so maybe bring Fox in, and move Neco up the pitch. I wouldn't start Moore either, not because of him, but because we hardly ever play to his strengths. I don't think he had a single cross to have a nibble at tonight, must be frustrating for him. Neco has to play further forward. LB in a back 4 isnt him. The issue is that the players who came on for three you mentioned were all worse than those three |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 26, 2023 0:40:55 GMT
“ Croatia had won 34 and drawn one home European qualifier in their history.”
And some say this isn’t a good result 🤷♂️
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Post by quetzal on Mar 26, 2023 1:04:44 GMT
I think sometimes myself included and the Aberbeegs and Dai’s of this world have to be careful is what Page got at is disposal. You compare Coleman’s Wales and Page’s Wales and while not chalk and cheese there’s a big difference. Page simply doesn’t have that quality of 2016.
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 26, 2023 2:29:04 GMT
I'm just back from DJing and I have to say I've been buzzing all night! Right before I was getting picked up Broadhead scored and I was losing my mind!!! Brilliant moment for Broadhead, we never gave up and we turned the tables and did the late scoring ourselves |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 26, 2023 3:36:38 GMT
The dark days are back. Our full backs are dreadful Do you ever get bored of being wrong? Or are you happy posting about "the dark days being back" and then saying we were good in the 2nd half? Cos it seems quite fun to be able to just say whatever and contradict yourself |
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Post by welshrover on Mar 26, 2023 6:51:16 GMT
Just out of interest was VAR not in play at tonight's game?
Saw no mention of it.
Or are we in a situation where some games could be decided by VAR and some not, doesn't appear right to me.
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Post by conwy10 on Mar 26, 2023 7:32:47 GMT
“ Croatia had won 34 and drawn one home European qualifier in their history.” And some say this isn’t a good result 🤷♂️ I don't think anyone would criticise the result. It was night and day in quality between us so I'm guessing most just have issues with the performance, which I think is fine. If we had 8 shots on goal, had them making last ditch tackles it would be different. I did feel for the last 10 mins Croatia and we were happy with 1-0. Didn't seem to be taking risks to win the ball back and they seemed to be toying with us. Their fault for switching off at the end. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Mar 26, 2023 8:14:16 GMT
I think sometimes myself included and the Aberbeegs and Dai’s of this world have to be careful is what Page got at is disposal. You compare Coleman’s Wales and Page’s Wales and while not chalk and cheese there’s a big difference. Page simply doesn’t have that quality of 2016. I partly agree with your statement. Although it must be said Page hasn’t helped himself at times. We’ve now conceded the first goal in our last TEN matches and it’s 1 win in the last 13 so Tuesdays game is absolutely critical in my opinion. The subs were planned last week to keep Ramsey Wilson and Moore fresh for Tuesday. It turned out a great point and credit where credit is due. If we back it up on Tuesday then it will be a great start. |
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Post by welshrover on Mar 26, 2023 8:35:05 GMT
Far from the substitutions being a tactical master stroke my impression was we were throwing last night's game to give us a chance of our best team for Tuesday.
I think Page got very lucky.
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Post by quetzal on Mar 26, 2023 8:48:03 GMT
I think sometimes myself included and the Aberbeegs and Dai’s of this world have to be careful is what Page got at is disposal. You compare Coleman’s Wales and Page’s Wales and while not chalk and cheese there’s a big difference. Page simply doesn’t have that quality of 2016. I partly agree with your statement. Although it must be said Page hasn’t helped himself at times. We’ve now conceded the first goal in our last TEN matches and it’s 1 win in the last 13 so Tuesdays game is absolutely critical in my opinion. The subs were planned last week to keep Ramsey Wilson and Moore fresh for Tuesday. It turned out a great point and credit where credit is due. If we back it up on Tuesday then it will be a great start. There is talent coming through. We shouldn’t expect a lot from this lot though. Hardly any of them play for their clubs week in week out. The best we can hope is a jolly in Germany. If you swapped Page for Pep then same thing with this current crop. A jolly in Germany would be amazing. What else could you expect. |
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Post by hooky on Mar 26, 2023 9:04:20 GMT
The dark days are back. Our full backs are dreadful Do you ever get bored of being wrong? Or are you happy posting about "the dark days being back" and then saying we were good in the 2nd half? Cos it seems quite fun to be able to just say whatever and contradict yourself Just ecstatic to give you an opportunity to say that Our first half was dire and energy less right? The second half we saw some energy. I am OK with us not being good enough given most players aren't playing and a couple are just mediocre. Its the lack of energy and working less hard than the opposition at times that annoyed me in that first half - I made the point that there was a big contrast between Croatia and Wales playing the ball out from the back - Croatia has many options and never seemed under pressure but Wales always seemed under intense pressure when they did it. Its not so much physical energy but more so mental energy/concentration - the Croats just look more active in finding space and the best positions to receive the ball. That is something that can be coached right? The full backs were dreadful - I 100% stand by that comment - especially in the first 60mins - Neco was all at sea (and note almost all my previous posted on him have been very positive - Copper's decision to stand him down to the bench has led to that of course) and more surprisingly Conor looked off the pace and was having a torrid time too. Its weird how they lifted the energy in the second half before the subs given that first half but well done to them (and I assume the impact the coaches / Page had at half time) and you can't doubt the fight in the team. and so the thing I concede is the dark days comment which was OTT and emotional but it was an awful first half, I still have doubts about Page (but fantastic results like this, if they continue, will make such comments look foolish in time and that will make me so, so happy) and I think they are driven by the horror of the WC performance, Bale's retirement and as a rugby supporter too - the humiliation we have been suffering in that sport. If we screw up against Latvia at home though then I think we'd all agree we will all be very concerned - but hopefully the positive impact on confidence of this result will help take care of that! Glad to be wrong and just hope that everyone, including Page, performs to the best of their ability and grow. If they do that then no one can complain no matter what happens! Big shout out to Ward. You could see him encouraging his defenders when things were going wrong. He was vocal, gave the aura of reliability and you felt he was in control and commanded his area. Shame James missed his chance and was not accurate with his delivery but he does so much hard work pressuring defenders, running back, etc - hope it comes right for him. Wish Neco could get a loan move somewhere but that is not going to happen is it? Perhaps Rodon (and Mepham) need to move down to Championship level but everyone wants to play at the top table if they can. Positive spin - we have our best defender (Davies) and best forward (Brennan) to come back and god willing, a highly inventive, natural footballer to come back (Brooks). See - I can do positive too! Well done Cymru! Maybe the dark days are over? |
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Post by rushy on Mar 26, 2023 9:09:06 GMT
Just taking in the result alone is huge for those players, if ever a boost in confidence was needed then this was it.
However if we look at the overall performance, then questions need to be asked.
LB is an issue as Neco is no defender, he has to go CM for me.
Ramsey gives the ball away too many times.
James is not performing.
Tactically I have no idea what we are, long ball and that's it ?
Some of the issues that I think need addressing.
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Post by iantov on Mar 26, 2023 9:10:42 GMT
Far from the substitutions being a tactical master stroke my impression was we were throwing last night's game to give us a chance of our best team for Tuesday. I think Page got very lucky. It clearly was pre-planned but sometimes plans need to be adjusted and, at the time, I thought we were on the front foot and should have tried to turn the screw for the next 10 mins at least with the same personnel. There was an immediate change in impetus when the substitutions were made but fair do's, although we got were lucky overall not to have a bit of a tuning, we didn't give up and a point against Croatia away is one to be lauded and celebrated as wildly as it was in the away end!! Absolutely brilliant!! Immediately after the euphoria of the goal, I was up at the TV screen pointing at my own head, shouting concentrate, concentrate...!! I had visions of Holland and it nearly happened again! We are always capable of an error in defence and up top so the same principal applies on Tuesday in terms of absolute concentration with no major mistakes, otherwise, it would be a fantastic point wasted if we don't get three against Latvia. |
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Post by melynwy on Mar 26, 2023 9:13:39 GMT
Far from the substitutions being a tactical master stroke my impression was we were throwing last night's game to give us a chance of our best team for Tuesday. I think Page got very lucky. Yes, I think you're totally correct. The substitutions were not made as a great attempt to get something out of the game, but we did anyway! I don't think Dan James is an attacker. I thought he did a very good defensive job yesterday. Whoever called to try him at wing back may well have a very good point... |
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Post by hooky on Mar 26, 2023 9:14:16 GMT
Far from the substitutions being a tactical master stroke my impression was we were throwing last night's game to give us a chance of our best team for Tuesday. I think Page got very lucky. It clearly was pre-planned but sometimes plans need to be adjusted and, at the time, I thought we were on the front foot and should have tried to turn the screw for the next 10 mins at least with the same personnel. There was an immediate change in impetus when the substitutions were made but fair do's, although we got were lucky overall not to have a bit of a tuning, we didn't give up and a point against Croatia away is one to be lauded and celebrated as wildly as it was in the away end!! Absolutely brilliant!! Immediately after the euphoria of the goal, I was up at the TV screen pointing at my own head, shouting concentrate, concentrate...!! I had visions of Holland and it nearly happened again! We are always capable of an error in defence and up top so the same principal applies on Tuesday in terms of absolute concentration with no major mistakes, otherwise, it would be a fantastic point wasted if we don't get three against Latvia. Yes I was thinking the same but the logical part of me thought this could not happen for a third time but it almost did! How can we straight from the kick off not touch the ball - they find a spare man on the right wing and nearly create a great opportunity? It should be hard to score a goal within a minute when you need one but we seem to make it easy! |
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Post by rushy on Mar 26, 2023 9:21:59 GMT
I think Ampadu has to play CM just in front of the CB's as that is an area where we are so vulnerable to chances on goal.
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Post by hooky on Mar 26, 2023 9:27:14 GMT
I think Ampadu has to play CM just in front of the CB's as that is an area where we are so vulnerable to chances on goal. Agree but Davies being injured does not help. I really hope we can move on from Morrell sometime soon. He gives everything but he has little athleticism / power and being tidy is not enough at international level. Agree with the comment on Croatia - they were cruising and got what they deserved, albeit I do think we competed far better in that second half - seeing some of the comment suggest that it was all one way for the entire 90 mins, which is not true. |
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Post by hooky on Mar 26, 2023 10:07:44 GMT
Despite our golden era - they weren't a large amount of great results against top tier teams were there?
Only Belgium, unless you count Russia as top tier (which they aren't). We had better results versus top tier nations under England, Yorath and even perhaps Hughes?
So to draw away against Croatia regardless of how we played is pretty special - given their home record and consistent excellence in tournaments
One thing we are far better at now than we were in the past is getting results away from home, especially against Eastern & Central European opposition.
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Post by pclaude on Mar 26, 2023 10:16:09 GMT
Just out of interest was VAR not in play at tonight's game? Saw no mention of it. Or are we in a situation where some games could be decided by VAR and some not, doesn't appear right to me. Fairly certain there was by the timing of some of the offside decisions. And their disallowed goal where the ref didnt blow immediately for the foul. |
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Post by pclaude on Mar 26, 2023 10:18:31 GMT
Despite our golden era - they weren't a large amount of great results against top tier teams were there? Only Belgium, unless you count Russia as top tier (which they aren't). We had better results versus top tier nations under England, Yorath and even perhaps Hughes? So to draw away against Croatia regardless of how we played is pretty special - given their home record and consistent excellence in tournaments One thing we are far better at now than we were in the past is getting results away from home, especially against Eastern & Central European opposition. Hughes’ top tier result was basically Italy at home wasnt it? Yorath draw and win v Germany. England, Spain home |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 26, 2023 10:19:31 GMT
Wasn't able to watch the game last night as I was away. Heard we were struggling and then nabbed a draw out of nothing so obvs buzzing with that
Did we struggle to create anything down the left? I felt that would would struggle without any left footers
Who were our best 3 players in terms of performance (aside from Ward), and who were our worst 3?
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But yes, agree that it was a plan to bring those three off the field to save them for Latvia. We were lucky tonight, but we'll all happily take the total bonus of a point. It will still count for nothing unless we win on Tuesday. 
