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Post by manulike on Mar 26, 2023 10:23:45 GMT
“ Croatia had won 34 and drawn one home European qualifier in their history.” And some say this isn’t a good result 🤷♂️ Agree completely. And wether or not Page should be credited for the subs after 60 and 75 minutes... It feels to me that THE TEAM lost none of the momentum after those subs and in fact were pressing deeper. We deserved our good fortune at the end - and no amount of Welsh winging will change my mind! |
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Post by aberbeeg on Mar 26, 2023 10:38:43 GMT
Wasn't able to watch the game last night as I was away. Heard we were struggling and then nabbed a draw out of nothing so obvs buzzing with that Did we struggle to create anything down the left? I felt that would would struggle without any left footers Who were our best 3 players in terms of performance (aside from Ward), and who were our worst 3? Neco got turned inside out and basically bullied For most of the match (had a nightmare). The game basically passed Morell by and Wilson was blowing out of his backside after 60 mins. Defence was extremely shaky. Ampudu was our best player and the subs added more energy. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Mar 26, 2023 10:40:41 GMT
I partly agree with your statement. Although it must be said Page hasn’t helped himself at times. We’ve now conceded the first goal in our last TEN matches and it’s 1 win in the last 13 so Tuesdays game is absolutely critical in my opinion. The subs were planned last week to keep Ramsey Wilson and Moore fresh for Tuesday. It turned out a great point and credit where credit is due. If we back it up on Tuesday then it will be a great start. There is talent coming through. We shouldn’t expect a lot from this lot though. Hardly any of them play for their clubs week in week out. The best we can hope is a jolly in Germany. If you swapped Page for Pep then same thing with this current crop. A jolly in Germany would be amazing. What else could you expect. You lost me after you compared Page with Pep and said we would get the same results. |
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Post by welshrover on Mar 26, 2023 10:51:13 GMT
Wasn't able to watch the game last night as I was away. Heard we were struggling and then nabbed a draw out of nothing so obvs buzzing with that Did we struggle to create anything down the left? I felt that would would struggle without any left footers Who were our best 3 players in terms of performance (aside from Ward), and who were our worst 3? Don't think there was a lot of positives, exceptions for me being Ward and Mepham. |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Mar 26, 2023 11:29:11 GMT
What a great surprise, never saw that coming. As above, few positives except the result. At least they kept trying to the end as Croatia switched off.
Neco, Dan James and to a lesser extent Wilson going backwards in their careers at the moment on that showing in my opinion.
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Post by cymro on Mar 26, 2023 11:47:21 GMT
Let's just remember that this team knocked Brazil out of the world cup 3 months ago. The best we could have hoped for here was hanging on for dear life for a jammy 0-0 or hold it to a 1 goal deficit until the end and hope for half a chance, which is what we did and we got a reward out of it.
Delighted with it as this is ultimately a bonus point over Turkey and Armenia that was never expected (assuming they both get nothing in Croatia!). Means nothing if we don't do the business at home though so let's not get too carried away... but it does probably mean we can afford a slip up somewhere along the way now (like in the last campaign when we drew 0-0 to Estonia).
Should probably cool off on some of the performances and finer tactics until after the Latvia game!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 26, 2023 12:12:58 GMT
Let's just remember that this team knocked Brazil out of the world cup 3 months ago. The best we could have hoped for here was hanging on for dear life for a jammy 0-0 or hold it to a 1 goal deficit until the end and hope for half a chance, which is what we did and we got a reward out of it. Delighted with it as this is ultimately a bonus point over Turkey and Armenia that was never expected (assuming they both get nothing in Croatia!). Means nothing if we don't do the business at home though so let's not get too carried away... but it does probably mean we can afford a slip up somewhere along the way now (like in the last campaign when we drew 0-0 to Estonia). Should probably cool off on some of the performances and finer tactics until after the Latvia game! Yep need to focus on Latvia now, but if we can do it 4 pts is dreamland, especially given the lack of Davies and Brennan |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 26, 2023 12:50:03 GMT
A 1-1 draw in Croatia is a pretty good result for a side that apparently didn't show up. Our goalscorer is approaching 25, has less than 50 career league starts and plays in the third tier of English football. Most of our starting eleven, a depleted starting eleven through injuries and Nottignham Forest, aren't regulars for their clubs right now (Ward, Mepham, Rodon, Willams, Wilson, James, Moore) so if we turn up not playing like a 70's Dutch side and scrape a point I'm more than happy with that, it gives us something to build on. This is the transitional period.
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Post by lawthom on Mar 26, 2023 13:45:00 GMT
Unbelievable result and I was berating how early Page made the changes and to make a triple sub killed the momentum but would we have got the draw if he didn’t make those changes who’s to say. I’d rather be lucky than good as the saying goes
One pedantic thing I would note is that we were a little bit naive with the celebration, all 10 OUTFIELD players left the pitch to celebrate so Croatia were allowed to kick off and go up the other end and score. Like a I said pedantic but maybe just a little something the team should not for future that an incredible result like that could be lost due to a team not fully knowing the laws of the game
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Post by hooky on Mar 26, 2023 13:52:23 GMT
Unbelievable result and I was berating how early Page made the changes and to make a triple sub killed the momentum but would we have got the draw if he didn’t make those changes who’s to say. I’d rather be lucky than good as the saying goes One pedantic thing I would note is that we were a little bit naive with the celebration, all 10 OUTFIELD players left the pitch to celebrate so Croatia were allowed to kick off and go up the other end and score. Like a I said pedantic but maybe just a little something the team should not for future that an incredible result like that could be lost due to a team not fully knowing the laws of the game Are you sure that is allowed? I have never seen it? Even if allowed I can't see a ref ever allowing it as it would be a total farce |
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Post by quetzal on Mar 26, 2023 14:53:52 GMT
There is talent coming through. We shouldn’t expect a lot from this lot though. Hardly any of them play for their clubs week in week out. The best we can hope is a jolly in Germany. If you swapped Page for Pep then same thing with this current crop. A jolly in Germany would be amazing. What else could you expect. You lost me after you compared Page with Pep and said we would get the same results. What I’m saying is there will be no semi final in the Euros. Qualification to Germany is the best we can hope with this group of players. We don’t have players like 2016. Not even close. |
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Post by surge on Mar 26, 2023 14:57:54 GMT
Story on Nagelsmann in Sunday Times sees him describe football as 5 phases: ball possession, opposition ball possession, counter pressing, counterattacks and set-pieces.
I think we had upper hand in set-pieces but we were largely on back foot for rest.
But the desired end product is all about creating high quality chances and taking high quality chances. This was much more even in second half. No wonder Croatia reached semi-final of World Cup largely on extra-time and penalty kicks, and well done to our lot for resilience shown over 90 mins.
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Post by welshrover on Mar 26, 2023 15:28:54 GMT
Jordan James was an inspired substitution, came on 90+2, we scored 90+3 without him even touching the ball😊
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Post by iot on Mar 26, 2023 15:37:46 GMT
Do you ever get bored of being wrong? Or are you happy posting about "the dark days being back" and then saying we were good in the 2nd half? Cos it seems quite fun to be able to just say whatever and contradict yourself Just ecstatic to give you an opportunity to say that  Our first half was dire and energy less right? The second half we saw some energy. I am OK with us not being good enough given most players aren't playing and a couple are just mediocre. Its the lack of energy and working less hard than the opposition at times that annoyed me in that first half - I made the point that there was a big contrast between Croatia and Wales playing the ball out from the back - Croatia has many options and never seemed under pressure but Wales always seemed under intense pressure when they did it. Its not so much physical energy but more so mental energy/concentration - the Croats just look more active in finding space and the best positions to receive the ball. That is something that can be coached right? The full backs were dreadful - I 100% stand by that comment - especially in the first 60mins - Neco was all at sea (and note almost all my previous posted on him have been very positive - Copper's decision to stand him down to the bench has led to that of course) and more surprisingly Conor looked off the pace and was having a torrid time too. Its weird how they lifted the energy in the second half before the subs given that first half but well done to them (and I assume the impact the coaches / Page had at half time) and you can't doubt the fight in the team. and so the thing I concede is the dark days comment which was OTT and emotional but it was an awful first half, I still have doubts about Page (but fantastic results like this, if they continue, will make such comments look foolish in time and that will make me so, so happy) and I think they are driven by the horror of the WC performance, Bale's retirement and as a rugby supporter too - the humiliation we have been suffering in that sport. If we screw up against Latvia at home though then I think we'd all agree we will all be very concerned - but hopefully the positive impact on confidence of this result will help take care of that! Glad to be wrong and just hope that everyone, including Page, performs to the best of their ability and grow. If they do that then no one can complain no matter what happens! Big shout out to Ward. You could see him encouraging his defenders when things were going wrong. He was vocal, gave the aura of reliability and you felt he was in control and commanded his area. Shame James missed his chance and was not accurate with his delivery but he does so much hard work pressuring defenders, running back, etc - hope it comes right for him. Wish Neco could get a loan move somewhere but that is not going to happen is it? Perhaps Rodon (and Mepham) need to move down to Championship level but everyone wants to play at the top table if they can. Positive spin - we have our best defender (Davies) and best forward (Brennan) to come back and god willing, a highly inventive, natural footballer to come back (Brooks). See - I can do positive too! Well done Cymru! Maybe the dark days are over? "The second half we saw some energy. I am OK with us not being good enough given most players aren't playing and a couple are just mediocre. Its the lack of energy and working less hard than the opposition at times that annoyed me in that first half - I made the point that there was a big contrast between Croatia and Wales playing the ball out from the back - Croatia has many options and never seemed under pressure but Wales always seemed under intense pressure when they did it. Its not so much physical energy but more so mental energy/concentration - the Croats just look more active in finding space and the best positions to receive the ball. That is something that can be coached right?" I think you're spot on in the difference between the teams - it's what makes their midfield so good and makes them a top 10 / potentially top 5 team overall. It's what makes their players better than ours - their football intelligence in how they find space (as well as technique of course). But I don't get why Page, or the players in fact, deserve criticism for that. It can be coached to an extent, but it's also what sets the players apart in their overall quality. We can't expect Morrell to turn up and through a week's worth of coaching, develop the same footballing intelligence as Modric! I just find it ridiculous to be negative about that. |
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Post by hooky on Mar 26, 2023 15:49:07 GMT
Just ecstatic to give you an opportunity to say that Our first half was dire and energy less right? The second half we saw some energy. I am OK with us not being good enough given most players aren't playing and a couple are just mediocre. Its the lack of energy and working less hard than the opposition at times that annoyed me in that first half - I made the point that there was a big contrast between Croatia and Wales playing the ball out from the back - Croatia has many options and never seemed under pressure but Wales always seemed under intense pressure when they did it. Its not so much physical energy but more so mental energy/concentration - the Croats just look more active in finding space and the best positions to receive the ball. That is something that can be coached right? The full backs were dreadful - I 100% stand by that comment - especially in the first 60mins - Neco was all at sea (and note almost all my previous posted on him have been very positive - Copper's decision to stand him down to the bench has led to that of course) and more surprisingly Conor looked off the pace and was having a torrid time too. Its weird how they lifted the energy in the second half before the subs given that first half but well done to them (and I assume the impact the coaches / Page had at half time) and you can't doubt the fight in the team. and so the thing I concede is the dark days comment which was OTT and emotional but it was an awful first half, I still have doubts about Page (but fantastic results like this, if they continue, will make such comments look foolish in time and that will make me so, so happy) and I think they are driven by the horror of the WC performance, Bale's retirement and as a rugby supporter too - the humiliation we have been suffering in that sport. If we screw up against Latvia at home though then I think we'd all agree we will all be very concerned - but hopefully the positive impact on confidence of this result will help take care of that! Glad to be wrong and just hope that everyone, including Page, performs to the best of their ability and grow. If they do that then no one can complain no matter what happens! Big shout out to Ward. You could see him encouraging his defenders when things were going wrong. He was vocal, gave the aura of reliability and you felt he was in control and commanded his area. Shame James missed his chance and was not accurate with his delivery but he does so much hard work pressuring defenders, running back, etc - hope it comes right for him. Wish Neco could get a loan move somewhere but that is not going to happen is it? Perhaps Rodon (and Mepham) need to move down to Championship level but everyone wants to play at the top table if they can. Positive spin - we have our best defender (Davies) and best forward (Brennan) to come back and god willing, a highly inventive, natural footballer to come back (Brooks). See - I can do positive too! Well done Cymru! Maybe the dark days are over? "The second half we saw some energy. I am OK with us not being good enough given most players aren't playing and a couple are just mediocre. Its the lack of energy and working less hard than the opposition at times that annoyed me in that first half - I made the point that there was a big contrast between Croatia and Wales playing the ball out from the back - Croatia has many options and never seemed under pressure but Wales always seemed under intense pressure when they did it. Its not so much physical energy but more so mental energy/concentration - the Croats just look more active in finding space and the best positions to receive the ball. That is something that can be coached right?" I think you're spot on in the difference between the teams - it's what makes their midfield so good and makes them a top 10 / potentially top 5 team overall. It's what makes their players better than ours - their football intelligence in how they find space (as well as technique of course). But I don't get why Page, or the players in fact, deserve criticism for that. It can be coached to an extent, but it's also what sets the players apart in their overall quality. We can't expect Morrell to turn up and through a week's worth of coaching, develop the same footballing intelligence as Modric! I just find it ridiculous to be negative about that. That's fair and maybe I am being a bit too critical. I was not singling out Morrell - but highlighting the back 5 (in particular) and perhaps the defensive midfielders (to a lesser extent) as a collective as all the defenders at least are playing (or have played) at Premier League level and I am sure they are coached to find space to receive the ball. I am not comparing so much the midfield - Modric especially and their midfield as you rightly say are on another level. Its just really striking the difference and its not like the Croats were sprinting into space. I guess its game intelligence and maybe the Croats just develop this as kids and its hard to make up the difference when you hit your late teens / early 20s. |
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Post by welwyn on Mar 26, 2023 15:50:26 GMT
Just out of interest was VAR not in play at tonight's game? Saw no mention of it. Or are we in a situation where some games could be decided by VAR and some not, doesn't appear right to me. Fairly certain there was by the timing of some of the offside decisions. And their disallowed goal where the ref didnt blow immediately for the foul. There definitely is VAR. Think Croatia were calling for it when the 'disallowed' goal happened but I think the ref was explaining that he did blow for a foul before the goal was scored and they didn't hear it. Was worried about Neco at left-back in a four beforehand because he has struggled defensively in a four on his favoured right side. Frankly, if we are playing 4 at the back, either we believe he can play in central midfield or I now believe we drop him because, for all that he looks good attacking from wing-back, he isn't as good a right FULL-back as Connor and he is a massive liability on the left. My biggest issue with Page last night was bringing Burns on as a number 10. If we were saving Rambo for Tuesday, I understand it but why not bring Ollie or even Luke Harris on, as opposed to someone whom, as far as I am aware, has never played there!! In fact, when the subs were made, I thought we were fixing the Neco LB issue by trying him in the number 10 role and playing Wes at LB. |
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Post by iot on Mar 26, 2023 15:59:55 GMT
Sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards. Im pretty sure we played more positively under Toshack. We look so low in confidence. Reality is, we havent been competitive AT ALL. Scotland would have had a proper go here. Just reading through this thread and your comments are all over the place, constantly contradicting yourself. Just before this post you complained about us going long too much; here you're complaining about too much sideways and backwards passing. You can't have it both ways. We either play a patient passing game, or a more direct approach. I felt we generally went with the latter last night because of Croatia's superiority in midfield and because of Moore's strength, so it was the right call. I'm not sure what you're expecting? We have to be realistic about the quality of players we have and you'll just have to accept we're not going to be playing like prime Barcelona, cutting teams open at will and playing through the thirds. Our best hope against quality sides is just to be dogged and attempt to nick something, which is what we did yesterday and like we used to do under Coleman. We simply can't go toe to toe with them on footballing ability. You also made another comment complaining how much poorer we were when the subs came on, and proceeded to say the starting line up was all wrong and that we should be playing those players that did come on (such as Bradshaw, who made very little impact) from the off on Tuesday. At least be consistent in your criticisms! I think you're just quite an emotional guy who manages stressful situations (and it can't get much more stressful than watching Wales play) by constantly shooting from the hip, which leads to all of these contradictions and persistent negativity. No offence, but it's the opposite we need in how Wales is managed. Some clear headed decision-making, not dropping players for inferior ones just because of the frustrations with some of the performances. We obviously need to only make changes where we think it will actually improve us. Our starting line-up yesterday was just about the best we had available - you can argue over a player or two (I would have gone for Lockyer instead of Wilson personally and play a different shape), but saying we should be starting lots of other inferior players just because they're different is wide of the mark imo. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Mar 26, 2023 16:03:25 GMT
Our supporters are absolutely incredible, wow. What a night that was.
The best Wales atmosphere I've been in since 2016.
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Post by pclaude on Mar 26, 2023 16:17:14 GMT
Fairly certain there was by the timing of some of the offside decisions. And their disallowed goal where the ref didnt blow immediately for the foul. There definitely is VAR. Think Croatia were calling for it when the 'disallowed' goal happened but I think the ref was explaining that he did blow for a foul before the goal was scored and they didn't hear it. Was worried about Neco at left-back in a four beforehand because he has struggled defensively in a four on his favoured right side. Frankly, if we are playing 4 at the back, either we believe he can play in central midfield or I now believe we drop him because, for all that he looks good attacking from wing-back, he isn't as good a right FULL-back as Connor and he is a massive liability on the left. My biggest issue with Page last night was bringing Burns on as a number 10. If we were saving Rambo for Tuesday, I understand it but why not bring Ollie or even Luke Harris on, as opposed to someone whom, as far as I am aware, has never played there!! In fact, when the subs were made, I thought we were fixing the Neco LB issue by trying him in the number 10 role and playing Wes at LB. Agree with everything. Especially the last paragraph. I found that baffling. Though Neco might be better suited to the Dan James role. Klopp played him there in the Champions league once. Right wing instead of Salah |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 26, 2023 16:18:03 GMT
Our supporters are absolutely incredible, wow. What a night that was. The best Wales atmosphere I've been in since 2016. That's great to hear, I wish I had the money right now to be part of this, thanks for putting that on here though. I'm fickle as hell, one minute I'm thinking that this is the beginning of the end, the next I'm thinking that this could be the beginning of a bright and more sustainable future! |
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Post by iot on Mar 26, 2023 16:22:39 GMT
Despite our golden era - they weren't a large amount of great results against top tier teams were there? Only Belgium, unless you count Russia as top tier (which they aren't). We had better results versus top tier nations under England, Yorath and even perhaps Hughes? So to draw away against Croatia regardless of how we played is pretty special - given their home record and consistent excellence in tournaments One thing we are far better at now than we were in the past is getting results away from home, especially against Eastern & Central European opposition. Hughes’ top tier result was basically Italy at home wasnt it? Yorath draw and win v Germany. England, Spain home Also beat Germany and drew with Argentina under Hughes, albeit in friendlies. A decent record all the same |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 26, 2023 16:32:52 GMT
Difference is that the golden era have qualified for three tournaments and got to the semi finals of one of them. Jimmy Murphy's boys were obviously very good in 1958 and their reaction to losing is something that speaks to me so much, they were absolutely devastated as they believed that they could win it. Even they didn't qualify for that World Cup though, they had to rely on Israel pulling out. The golden era has seen two wins and three draws with brilliant Belgium sides, great performances in tournaments against the likes of Russia, Turkey and you have to say that the Slovakia and Northern Ireland games were decent, especially when you look at our resources, it's all relevant. You can't forget the Austria and Ukraine play offs either, they were dogged performances against sides that I think are/were better than we're given credit for.
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Post by iot on Mar 26, 2023 16:39:14 GMT
Wasn't able to watch the game last night as I was away. Heard we were struggling and then nabbed a draw out of nothing so obvs buzzing with that Did we struggle to create anything down the left? I felt that would would struggle without any left footers Who were our best 3 players in terms of performance (aside from Ward), and who were our worst 3? Didn't struggle down the left anymore than down the right. We just, predictably, didn't get any of the ball. As other have said, it was a poor first half performance, and a very decent performance in the second half. We looked quite compact and difficult to break down, restricting them to long distance efforts mostly (think they only had one good chance in the box all game which Kovacic should have scored). We definitely could have been better on the ball. We had a period from minute 45-60 where I thought we were very good. Overall, they did come close on 3 or 4 occasions and had a disallowed goal, so they probably deserved to score twice. We created two good opportunities all game which usually wouldn't have been enough to score , so I think a 2-0 loss would have been a truer reflection of how the game went, which is pretty much what we were expecting before the game. If that game were played 10 times, we probably would have lost it by a goal or two the other nine times. The biggest shame by far for me is how poor the goal we gave away was, with 4 players really poor - primarily Neco and Rodon, but also felt Mepham and Ward could have done better. I would rate the team's performance as a 5/10 first half and 7/10 second half (would have been 8/10 in that good period around the 45-60min mark). As for individuals, I don't think anyone stands out really in having a great game. It was just a backs to the wall effort where everyone on our side spent most of the game chasing shadows. Ward would probably get a 7/10 for making 2 or 3 really good saves. I do think the one he let in was no more difficult than at least one save he made, so he would get marked slightly down for that. Kieffer won all his headers but almost never found anyone with them. Wilson was ineffective for 90% of the game, but did brilliantly to set up James for the chance he should have put away. James hooked that chance wide, but he was quite good otherwise. Ramsey was the pick of the bunch in midfield, although didn't get much of an opportunity to influence things. Morrell was just chasing shadows most game, so I'd probably give him a 5/10. Ampadu was a bit better in getting into them, but was fairly quiet. Neco did terribly for the goal and played us into trouble on two other occasions, but was good apart from that. Probably still a 5/10 performance from him. Connor Roberts showed his WC form as I thought he would, so again another 5/10 - he was responsible for a couple of early chances we gave away. Rodon was good apart from the goal, but bloody hell he was so weak in how he lost out for that goal. So to summarise, I would say the game played out exactly how everyone would imagine, we were just fortuitous that they probably didn't get quite what they deserved in front of goal, and we probably got a bit more than we deserved. |
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Post by manulike on Mar 26, 2023 17:23:47 GMT
Our supporters are absolutely incredible, wow. What a night that was. The best Wales atmosphere I've been in since 2016. That's great to hear, I wish I had the money right now to be part of this, thanks for putting that on here though. I'm fickle as hell, one minute I'm thinking that this is the beginning of the end, the next I'm thinking that this could be the beginning of a bright and more sustainable future! Was certainly quite an evening. We got the almost compulsory armed police escort back into town, but as we did that 1 mile escorted walk, the locals who were lining the streets (as all traffic was blocked off) they were actually cheering and clapping us! That was certainly a first for me - loads of locals commented today how LOUD we were and about that WalesAway aha, aha I like it, song :+) |
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Post by dai on Mar 26, 2023 20:34:19 GMT
Sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards. Im pretty sure we played more positively under Toshack. We look so low in confidence. Reality is, we havent been competitive AT ALL. Scotland would have had a proper go here. Just reading through this thread and your comments are all over the place, constantly contradicting yourself. Just before this post you complained about us going long too much; here you're complaining about too much sideways and backwards passing. You can't have it both ways. We either play a patient passing game, or a more direct approach. I felt we generally went with the latter last night because of Croatia's superiority in midfield and because of Moore's strength, so it was the right call. I'm not sure what you're expecting? We have to be realistic about the quality of players we have and you'll just have to accept we're not going to be playing like prime Barcelona, cutting teams open at will and playing through the thirds. Our best hope against quality sides is just to be dogged and attempt to nick something, which is what we did yesterday and like we used to do under Coleman. We simply can't go toe to toe with them on footballing ability. You also made another comment complaining how much poorer we were when the subs came on, and proceeded to say the starting line up was all wrong and that we should be playing those players that did come on (such as Bradshaw, who made very little impact) from the off on Tuesday. At least be consistent in your criticisms! I think you're just quite an emotional guy who manages stressful situations (and it can't get much more stressful than watching Wales play) by constantly shooting from the hip, which leads to all of these contradictions and persistent negativity. No offence, but it's the opposite we need in how Wales is managed. Some clear headed decision-making, not dropping players for inferior ones just because of the frustrations with some of the performances. We obviously need to only make changes where we think it will actually improve us. Our starting line-up yesterday was just about the best we had available - you can argue over a player or two (I would have gone for Lockyer instead of Wilson personally and play a different shape), but saying we should be starting lots of other inferior players just because they're different is wide of the mark imo. Right then, let's decipher this. 1. I don't recall complaining about going long? Think you've got my posts mixed up with someone else. So that's settled. 2. I don't expect us to have much of the ball, especially against Croatia, however I do expect us to be able to string a few passes together. Apart from a 20 minute spell in the second half, we couldn't even muster basic 1-2's, and lost the ball again and again. At the end of the day, these players are playing at a very good level, yet we look on the pitch like a pot 4 or 5 team at times. It is worrying. 3. Yes, I standby by comment that we became poorer after the triple substation. We were surprisingly, getting into the game a bit, and were having a bit of joy on the ball. Then the subs came, and we became a bit lost. The subs, again, can be questioned. It wasn't even tactical, it was basically, chuck those three on to save some legs. 4. And I also standby with my opinion that the line up was wrong. I personally think we needed some ball carriers and match fit players on the pitch from the get go - Cooper, Bradshaw (despite your predictable criticisms of him - I guess another one we can write off is it?) That starting line up, similar to all the ones during the WC, looked tired, leggy and unconfident. Moore should not have started as he's clearly off the pace, and his touch was very poor last night. Also hardly bothered in the air, which may be a habit now as he's afraid of getting penalised. Neco is definitely NOT a full back. WB maybe, but not a FB. Morgan Fox is playing well and regularly, why not play him? Giggs made big calls and gambles when he took charge, which eventually paid off, Page needs to start doing the same. 5. A bit naughty regarding the personality dig/assessment, emotional guy etc. For what it's worth, yes, I am quite an emotional person - if you've been through the personal shit that I have over the last 5 years, maybe you'd be a bit neurotic as well. But this forum isn't the place to discuss that. Lastly, I will add, that I don't enjoy watching us play anymore. We don't have an identity, or a style of playing. Riding our luck for 90 mins then score an equaliser is hardly a good watch is it? You could argue Coleman wasn't a master tactician, and we were still very average up top, however he built a team around a solid defence, and being a defender myself, I enjoyed watching us put on sound defensive displays where we conceded very few goals. Right now we have a fragile defence, a passive midfield and little firepower up top. Page has been in charge for quite a decent amount of time now, yet there has been little progress imo. But let's see what happens against Latvia. Hopefully we can put in a good performance, as well as get the goals needed. |
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Post by conwy10 on Mar 26, 2023 21:09:30 GMT
Just reading through this thread and your comments are all over the place, constantly contradicting yourself. Just before this post you complained about us going long too much; here you're complaining about too much sideways and backwards passing. You can't have it both ways. We either play a patient passing game, or a more direct approach. I felt we generally went with the latter last night because of Croatia's superiority in midfield and because of Moore's strength, so it was the right call. I'm not sure what you're expecting? We have to be realistic about the quality of players we have and you'll just have to accept we're not going to be playing like prime Barcelona, cutting teams open at will and playing through the thirds. Our best hope against quality sides is just to be dogged and attempt to nick something, which is what we did yesterday and like we used to do under Coleman. We simply can't go toe to toe with them on footballing ability. You also made another comment complaining how much poorer we were when the subs came on, and proceeded to say the starting line up was all wrong and that we should be playing those players that did come on (such as Bradshaw, who made very little impact) from the off on Tuesday. At least be consistent in your criticisms! I think you're just quite an emotional guy who manages stressful situations (and it can't get much more stressful than watching Wales play) by constantly shooting from the hip, which leads to all of these contradictions and persistent negativity. No offence, but it's the opposite we need in how Wales is managed. Some clear headed decision-making, not dropping players for inferior ones just because of the frustrations with some of the performances. We obviously need to only make changes where we think it will actually improve us. Our starting line-up yesterday was just about the best we had available - you can argue over a player or two (I would have gone for Lockyer instead of Wilson personally and play a different shape), but saying we should be starting lots of other inferior players just because they're different is wide of the mark imo. Right then, let's decipher this. 1. I don't recall complaining about going long? Think you've got my posts mixed up with someone else. So that's settled. 2. I don't expect us to have much of the ball, especially against Croatia, however I do expect us to be able to string a few passes together. Apart from a 20 minute spell in the second half, we couldn't even muster basic 1-2's, and lost the ball again and again. At the end of the day, these players are playing at a very good level, yet we look on the pitch like a pot 4 or 5 team at times. It is worrying. 3. Yes, I standby by comment that we became poorer after the triple substation. We were surprisingly, getting into the game a bit, and were having a bit of joy on the ball. Then the subs came, and we became a bit lost. The subs, again, can be questioned. It wasn't even tactical, it was basically, chuck those three on to save some legs. 4. And I also standby with my opinion that the line up was wrong. I personally think we needed some ball carriers and match fit players on the pitch from the get go - Cooper, Bradshaw (despite your predictable criticisms of him - I guess another one we can write off is it?) That starting line up, similar to all the ones during the WC, looked tired, leggy and unconfident. Moore should not have started as he's clearly off the pace, and his touch was very poor last night. Also hardly bothered in the air, which may be a habit now as he's afraid of getting penalised. Neco is definitely NOT a full back. WB maybe, but not a FB. Morgan Fox is playing well and regularly, why not play him? Giggs made big calls and gambles when he took charge, which eventually paid off, Page needs to start doing the same. 5. A bit naughty regarding the personality dig/assessment, emotional guy etc. For what it's worth, yes, I am quite an emotional person - if you've been through the personal shit that I have over the last 5 years, maybe you'd be a bit neurotic as well. But this forum isn't the place to discuss that. Lastly, I will add, that I don't enjoy watching us play anymore. We don't have an identity, or a style of playing. Riding our luck for 90 mins then score an equaliser is hardly a good watch is it? You could argue Coleman wasn't a master tactician, and we were still very average up top, however he built a team around a solid defence, and being a defender myself, I enjoyed watching us put on sound defensive displays where we conceded very few goals. Right now we have a fragile defence, a passive midfield and little firepower up top. Page has been in charge for quite a decent amount of time now, yet there has been little progress imo. But let's see what happens against Latvia. Hopefully we can put in a good performance, as well as get the goals needed. I agree with everything there, except I thought Moore was probably the best player for us. He won everything put up to him. Right now though it seems to be hit long for Moore, if he wins it collected by a midfielder, out to a fullback, to a CB, back to the keeper. Hopefully Johnson can play off him. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 26, 2023 21:13:32 GMT
Wasn't able to watch the game last night as I was away. Heard we were struggling and then nabbed a draw out of nothing so obvs buzzing with that Did we struggle to create anything down the left? I felt that would would struggle without any left footers Who were our best 3 players in terms of performance (aside from Ward), and who were our worst 3? Didn't struggle down the left anymore than down the right. We just, predictably, didn't get any of the ball. As other have said, it was a poor first half performance, and a very decent performance in the second half. We looked quite compact and difficult to break down, restricting them to long distance efforts mostly (think they only had one good chance in the box all game which Kovacic should have scored). We definitely could have been better on the ball. We had a period from minute 45-60 where I thought we were very good. Overall, they did come close on 3 or 4 occasions and had a disallowed goal, so they probably deserved to score twice. We created two good opportunities all game which usually wouldn't have been enough to score , so I think a 2-0 loss would have been a truer reflection of how the game went, which is pretty much what we were expecting before the game. If that game were played 10 times, we probably would have lost it by a goal or two the other nine times. The biggest shame by far for me is how poor the goal we gave away was, with 4 players really poor - primarily Neco and Rodon, but also felt Mepham and Ward could have done better. I would rate the team's performance as a 5/10 first half and 7/10 second half (would have been 8/10 in that good period around the 45-60min mark). As for individuals, I don't think anyone stands out really in having a great game. It was just a backs to the wall effort where everyone on our side spent most of the game chasing shadows. Ward would probably get a 7/10 for making 2 or 3 really good saves. I do think the one he let in was no more difficult than at least one save he made, so he would get marked slightly down for that. Kieffer won all his headers but almost never found anyone with them. Wilson was ineffective for 90% of the game, but did brilliantly to set up James for the chance he should have put away. James hooked that chance wide, but he was quite good otherwise. Ramsey was the pick of the bunch in midfield, although didn't get much of an opportunity to influence things. Morrell was just chasing shadows most game, so I'd probably give him a 5/10. Ampadu was a bit better in getting into them, but was fairly quiet. Neco did terribly for the goal and played us into trouble on two other occasions, but was good apart from that. Probably still a 5/10 performance from him. Connor Roberts showed his WC form as I thought he would, so again another 5/10 - he was responsible for a couple of early chances we gave away. Rodon was good apart from the goal, but bloody hell he was so weak in how he lost out for that goal. So to summarise, I would say the game played out exactly how everyone would imagine, we were just fortuitous that they probably didn't get quite what they deserved in front of goal, and we probably got a bit more than we deserved. Thanks for this, seems like a very fair and honest assessment of the game. Kind of what I expected to be honest, but amazing we got the draw. I just hope we change a few personnel for the Latvia game and pick a more bold lineup |
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Post by fireboy0610 on Mar 26, 2023 21:16:31 GMT
That's great to hear, I wish I had the money right now to be part of this, thanks for putting that on here though. I'm fickle as hell, one minute I'm thinking that this is the beginning of the end, the next I'm thinking that this could be the beginning of a bright and more sustainable future! Was certainly quite an evening. We got the almost compulsory armed police escort back into town, but as we did that 1 mile escorted walk, the locals who were lining the streets (as all traffic was blocked off) they were actually cheering and clapping us! That was certainly a first for me - loads of locals commented today how LOUD we were and about that WalesAway aha, aha I like it, song :+) Unbelievable night mate, just unbelievable, will never ever forget it. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Mar 27, 2023 6:33:56 GMT
Just reading through this thread and your comments are all over the place, constantly contradicting yourself. Just before this post you complained about us going long too much; here you're complaining about too much sideways and backwards passing. You can't have it both ways. We either play a patient passing game, or a more direct approach. I felt we generally went with the latter last night because of Croatia's superiority in midfield and because of Moore's strength, so it was the right call. I'm not sure what you're expecting? We have to be realistic about the quality of players we have and you'll just have to accept we're not going to be playing like prime Barcelona, cutting teams open at will and playing through the thirds. Our best hope against quality sides is just to be dogged and attempt to nick something, which is what we did yesterday and like we used to do under Coleman. We simply can't go toe to toe with them on footballing ability. You also made another comment complaining how much poorer we were when the subs came on, and proceeded to say the starting line up was all wrong and that we should be playing those players that did come on (such as Bradshaw, who made very little impact) from the off on Tuesday. At least be consistent in your criticisms! I think you're just quite an emotional guy who manages stressful situations (and it can't get much more stressful than watching Wales play) by constantly shooting from the hip, which leads to all of these contradictions and persistent negativity. No offence, but it's the opposite we need in how Wales is managed. Some clear headed decision-making, not dropping players for inferior ones just because of the frustrations with some of the performances. We obviously need to only make changes where we think it will actually improve us. Our starting line-up yesterday was just about the best we had available - you can argue over a player or two (I would have gone for Lockyer instead of Wilson personally and play a different shape), but saying we should be starting lots of other inferior players just because they're different is wide of the mark imo. Right then, let's decipher this. 1. I don't recall complaining about going long? Think you've got my posts mixed up with someone else. So that's settled. 2. I don't expect us to have much of the ball, especially against Croatia, however I do expect us to be able to string a few passes together. Apart from a 20 minute spell in the second half, we couldn't even muster basic 1-2's, and lost the ball again and again. At the end of the day, these players are playing at a very good level, yet we look on the pitch like a pot 4 or 5 team at times. It is worrying. 3. Yes, I standby by comment that we became poorer after the triple substation. We were surprisingly, getting into the game a bit, and were having a bit of joy on the ball. Then the subs came, and we became a bit lost. The subs, again, can be questioned. It wasn't even tactical, it was basically, chuck those three on to save some legs. 4. And I also standby with my opinion that the line up was wrong. I personally think we needed some ball carriers and match fit players on the pitch from the get go - Cooper, Bradshaw (despite your predictable criticisms of him - I guess another one we can write off is it?) That starting line up, similar to all the ones during the WC, looked tired, leggy and unconfident. Moore should not have started as he's clearly off the pace, and his touch was very poor last night. Also hardly bothered in the air, which may be a habit now as he's afraid of getting penalised. Neco is definitely NOT a full back. WB maybe, but not a FB. Morgan Fox is playing well and regularly, why not play him? Giggs made big calls and gambles when he took charge, which eventually paid off, Page needs to start doing the same. 5. A bit naughty regarding the personality dig/assessment, emotional guy etc. For what it's worth, yes, I am quite an emotional person - if you've been through the personal shit that I have over the last 5 years, maybe you'd be a bit neurotic as well. But this forum isn't the place to discuss that. Lastly, I will add, that I don't enjoy watching us play anymore. We don't have an identity, or a style of playing. Riding our luck for 90 mins then score an equaliser is hardly a good watch is it? You could argue Coleman wasn't a master tactician, and we were still very average up top, however he built a team around a solid defence, and being a defender myself, I enjoyed watching us put on sound defensive displays where we conceded very few goals. Right now we have a fragile defence, a passive midfield and little firepower up top. Page has been in charge for quite a decent amount of time now, yet there has been little progress imo. But let's see what happens against Latvia. Hopefully we can put in a good performance, as well as get the goals needed. There is quite a bit of contradiction in what you say sometimes. You're generally the first to tell us how shite all our players are compared to other nations. Yet it's also Page's fault for not doing more with all these "shite" players when surely we're overachieving by qualifying consistently for major tournaments atm. What we've done is we've found a way to eke out results in important games when we don't deserve them (WC finals aside). Every one of us would take that over trying to play some fancy stuff and getting spanked every game. As Wales followers we should know we're not owed anything. We should enjoy being able to qualify while it lasts. Let's not be those entitled club supporters who call for the manager's head because they're "only 8th" in the Premier League, when in reality they belong in League One. |
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Post by londonexile on Mar 27, 2023 7:25:11 GMT
Was certainly quite an evening. We got the almost compulsory armed police escort back into town, but as we did that 1 mile escorted walk, the locals who were lining the streets (as all traffic was blocked off) they were actually cheering and clapping us! That was certainly a first for me - loads of locals commented today how LOUD we were and about that WalesAway aha, aha I like it, song :+) Unbelievable night mate, just unbelievable, will never ever forget it. What an amazing second half from the red wall. Non stop singing for pretty much 45 mins and goes to show what supporting your team to the very last minute can achieve. We deserved that last minute goal to celebrate and boy was that celebrated wildly. Pure joy. I actually thought we were quite quiet and low energy, around the bars pre match and in the first half and then that explosion of noise, a crescendo of Wales Away aha aha I like it to see us out at the end was magnificent. A real Wales away iconic moment that will stay with me. Similar to the half time rave at Belgium! A real moment and to get clapped back into the town was just lovely. This is no exaggeration although it sounds like it as I type it out but they lined the pavements, came out onto their balconies and clapped us all the way back for the mile walk in to Split..."Congratulations", "Well done", "Great Goal" accompanied by hand shakes, fist bumps and genuine warm smiles. Continued at the breakfast buffet in the morning. I think we made good friends out there, well done Y Wal Goch. Magic. Very proud to be a part of that travelling support. A great rendition of Calon Lan, Sing a song for Speedo and Brooks' song as well ,hope that came across well via the TV. Out of interest when did we start the Wales away song out there....I swear it started in the top right corner at about 73 mins and built from there....by about 78/80 mins it was in full swing, 90 mins....tottal chaos....pants man in sunglasses climbing the fence , tops off all round and images of scences that belong in the Louvre. |
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