Cymru v Armenia

[jimexotic]

The keeper was congratulated as if he'd saved a penalty or scored a goal, they were celebrating the red card. That's not what you want to see, I think we did well to keep our heads after that, not that it matters.

[gruffudd]

Jun 16, 2023 22:27:45 GMT dai said:

Jun 16, 2023 22:24:11 GMT gruffudd said:

And who was doing anything of note tonight? I stand by that our MOTM, was a constant presence on numerous occasions held the ball up, his control and hold up play is a continual supprised, we were poor but Moore was our best players tonight. Who was you Welsh MOTM.

No idea tbh, they were all pretty shambolic.

D James worked hard as usual, and made a lot of tackles tracking back. So I'd probably say him.

DJ will always work, hard good shout, NA also worked his socks off, apologies but I'm frustrated and pissed off. In the words of Russell Osman, come on lads we can still win this.

[dai]

Jun 16, 2023 22:34:08 GMT jimexotic said:

The keeper was congratulated as if he'd saved a penalty or scored a goal, they were celebrating the red card. That's not what you want to see, I think we did well to keep our heads after that, not that it matters.

At the same time, you don't want to see your own players losing their heads. It's been happening far too often.

James, Wilson, Ampadu, Mepham and now Moore have become guilty of letting their heads go. It's become a recurrent theme in the squad, and maybe thats the product of the poor culture currently going on within the setup - like Hooky said above. These players are clearly not happy, despite all the talk. Actions speak louder than words, and something is badly amiss.

[dai]

Jun 16, 2023 22:37:28 GMT gruffudd said:

Jun 16, 2023 22:27:45 GMT dai said:

No idea tbh, they were all pretty shambolic.

D James worked hard as usual, and made a lot of tackles tracking back. So I'd probably say him.

DJ will always work, hard good shout, NA also worked his socks off, apologies but I'm frustrated and pissed off. In the words of Russell Osman, come on lads we can still win this.

No need to apologise, I've probably pissed off a few on here tonight, ha. 

Everyone's annoyed and frustrated sadly, and it's very difficult to see an end product here.

[foxmulder]

What in the world of fuck was this?

So called happy clapper here. The negativity on this board drives me crazy at times. On occasions I've had to take breaks from the lunacy for months.

But even I predicted this was coming. I mentioned in the Latvia thread that we were due a hiding.

Why was Ramsey put in Morrell's position? He may be getting older, but he's still one of our biggest attacking threats, but he was mostly ineffective aside from the times he strayed further forward.

And then he got replaced by Morrell.

What was the point in that?? Like, what the hell??

Brennan is effective for the first 20 and then he's moved positions. Why???

After the World Cup, Page said he'd learn from his mistakes and not start players without match practice. OK, cool, let's start Rodon and Moore then. Meanwhile Tom Bradshaw and his Championship goals and Cabango with all his Championship starts are on the bench.

Rodon was understandably bad and rightfully taken off. You'd think Cabango would come on, but no! Let's bring on Neco Williams for his first game back after over two months. Makes fucking sense.

Oh we're 2-1 down, let's bring on a defensive midfielder and a defender. Bradshaw is on the bench shouting, "Oh butt, you've seen how many goals I've scored this season, right? What's that? Oh, I'm coming on for 8 fucking minutes? When we're a man down too? OK cool."

[fiveattheback]

Jun 16, 2023 22:31:12 GMT dai said:

Jun 16, 2023 22:28:04 GMT fiveattheback said:

I'vd only seen it once since the game but it strikes me as harsh, is it really deserving of a red card?

That the Armenians celebrated and congratulated the keeper should have been a clue to the ref that all was not as it seemed

It was similar to Beckhams red card vs Argentina in 1998. That sort of petty, childish, aggressive behaviour. Basically back heel kicked the keeper after they both got up. Fully deserved a red.

Petty, sure. Red card? Not for me.

It's all irrelevant anyway and we'd have lost with 11 anyway

[jimexotic]

I'm going to bed, this has been a thoroughly depressing evening and right now all I can think is that we're set for years of crap, I hope I'm wrong.

[surge]

Difficult to know what to say tonight.

- We started really well, creating a number of attacking set-pieces and scored a really wonderful goal. A goal I probably watch again for a long time. Ward made decent save to parry the ball and then reacted quickly to control it before their attacker got a sniff.

- They pounced twice in similar fashion, I think. Second was Wilson winning the ball and carrying up the pitch, not having enough support, making attempt at beating three men, losing the ball and us defending with 10. Right-side was exposed and they were really clinical.

- We were slow with waiting subs. They scored again.

- We scored from well-worked set piece.

- They provoked Moore who, apparently, was stupid with cheeky back-heal.

- They scored again.

- Brooks was neat, Broadhead did a lot of good running, we recycled the ball, but we only created a few half-chances.

Random thoughts:

1. Dan James was excellent for the most part, one whiffed cross attempt and poor shot aside. Probably our player of the game.

2. Armenia were 3rd seed in the draw so clearly have something about them. They deserved the win tonight even without goalie antics. Their number 6 was really impressive.

3. We're too easy to score against.

4. Nations League play-off?? Probable but not guaranteed and playing a team on the up. Feck.

5. Crowd wearing red and many staying at end to show support was good. 

[davefishwick]

Embarrassing. We aren't good enough now. The fun's over.

Hope for a kind playoff draw (I think we'd beat Ireland, who are just as poor as us)

[hooky]

I think Ireland would beat us tbh. I would not fancy us against any second placed teams atm and I can't see us beating 2 teams in a play off to get to Germany, the first of which would be away from home I assume

So frustrated - why can't Page learn about tactics after being involved for 6 bloody years now. Its maddening

[dai]

Jun 16, 2023 22:42:50 GMT fiveattheback said:

Jun 16, 2023 22:31:12 GMT dai said:

It was similar to Beckhams red card vs Argentina in 1998. That sort of petty, childish, aggressive behaviour. Basically back heel kicked the keeper after they both got up. Fully deserved a red.

Petty, sure. Red card? Not for me.

It's all irrelevant anyway and we'd have lost with 11 anyway

This is a good view of it. Yes, it's no leg breaker, but it's a red card all day long.

[marsvolta]

Was going to avoid coming on here as I’m sure that some of our regulars will feel like they’ve hit jackpot tonight but I’ve got to speak about the ref.

Firstly, no excuses, we were second best and the ref didn’t beat us, Armenia did.

However, how can the ref stand back and watch all those play acting antics, all the extended time wasting, all the dirty tactics, and not do anything about it. He kept pointing to his watch as if to say that he is keeping track of the time wasting, then we only had 7 mins!!!! Surely all the substitutions came to 7 mins alone. Total farce.

Again, for avoidance of doubt, I don’t think we’d have won anyway, but Armenia tonight was not a good advert for football.(congratulating the keeper for the dramatics that led to the red was a particular low)

[greenscorpio1967]

Well two negatives don't make a positive

[toshfan]

Jun 16, 2023 23:35:36 GMT marsvolta said:

Was going to avoid coming on here as I’m sure that some of our regulars will feel like they’ve hit jackpot tonight but I’ve got to speak about the ref.

Firstly, no excuses, we were second best and the ref didn’t beat us, Armenia did.

However, how can the ref stand back and watch all those play acting antics, all the extended time wasting, all the dirty tactics, and not do anything about it. He kept pointing to his watch as if to say that he is keeping track of the time wasting, then we only had 7 mins!!!! Surely all the substitutions came to 7 mins alone. Total farce.

Again, for avoidance of doubt, I don’t think we’d have won anyway, but Armenia tonight was not a good advert for football.(congratulating the keeper for the dramatics that led to the red was a particular low)

Armenia were a good advert for football. They were fast, fluent and clinical. We were none of those things.
The referee was fine. Red card accurate. 7 minutes added time felt accurate to me.

[zakbaby]

Well,you tell kids not to mess about with the ball,particularly around your own area and in your own half. That's exactly what we did for goal number 2 and 4 tonight.
Rodon trying to take on 3 players instead of passing, Morrell turning into players outside his own box. Amateur hour. We were really slack in possession and didn't close down enough. Shades of Georgia when we scored an early goal and thought they'd lay down. A big wake up call.
Wish they would use VAR for incidents and cut out the cheating. Keeper was rolling around like he'd been shot. Not an impact on this game but definitely on the Turkey game.
Rob Page needs to get it right in Turkey as we are so open. To be fair to him you could see what he thought about the 4th goal and the messing about. We need to use the wings and be a little more direct as it was effective tonight but we are not Barcelona messing about with the ball in dangerous areas.
I hate to say it but we looked a little arrogant the way we didn't really work hard out of possession until we were behind. I think the players didn't respect Armenia enough but hopefully a lesson learned. We cannot lose to Turkey now. Somewhere we need to get those 3 points back

[conwy10]

Jun 16, 2023 23:35:36 GMT marsvolta said:

Was going to avoid coming on here as I’m sure that some of our regulars will feel like they’ve hit jackpot tonight but I’ve got to speak about the ref.

Firstly, no excuses, we were second best and the ref didn’t beat us, Armenia did.

However, how can the ref stand back and watch all those play acting antics, all the extended time wasting, all the dirty tactics, and not do anything about it. He kept pointing to his watch as if to say that he is keeping track of the time wasting, then we only had 7 mins!!!! Surely all the substitutions came to 7 mins alone. Total farce.

Again, for avoidance of doubt, I don’t think we’d have won anyway, but Armenia tonight was not a good advert for football.(congratulating the keeper for the dramatics that led to the red was a particular low)

I think he did us a favour keeping it to 7 to be honest.

[conwy10]

My take of the game. Soft red card but stupid of Moore to fall into the trap.

Amazing first 20, then it all went downhill. We don't seem to be able to adapt at all. We've got some lightening quick players and a target man but struggle to get them isolated one on one or working off the striker. All we can do is slow, possession based technical football... which is good, but we aren't that good at it anymore.

I think Roberts gets it a bit unfair, James almost plays as a fullback to cover Davies, no one ever covers Roberts, even so he's not been at his best since the Euros. Mepham and Rodon are a calamity together. Davies can only play one position and its a position we don't use (LCB), Ramsey can't play a CM, only a #10, we'll still be waiting until Wilson is 45 for him to come of age. Page is a disaster. Seeing 2 Wales players about to come on, Armenia then decide to bring 2 on, they make the changes, we leaves it for 5 mins until we go a further goal down.

I don't have any faith in our defence, I was expecting a goal everytime they went forward. Sorry if this is overly negative but I've drove 10 hours for that today. Our fans deserve better. Armenia are limited but had a desire and determination, they played for each other. Their CM, I think was #6 was incrediɓlw tonight.

[talyfan]

conwy10

As a pairing Rodon and Mepham have done their time. Rodon the weaker link of the two. If Lockyer was available I'd genuinely would have been tempted to go with Lockyer and Cabango against Turkey or one of us!!

No 6 that Iwu looked decent. Look at their fourth goal. Busts a gut to press Morrell.

The type of midfielder we're crying out for. Quick and athletic enough to get back and fourth up and down the pitch.

The spine of the team definitely needs looking at.

[Belle Vue]

To many players / staff in the comfort zone
How many staff in the dug out compared to Armenia
I counted
Page £220k a year
Knill
Roberts
Assistant coach
Kit man
Doctor
Physio
2 x Sports Scientists
Video Analysis
Ian Mitchell

Probably a lot more in the background- seriously we are Wales not Germany or Spain , this is where our money is spent , oh and let’s not forget Noel Mooney who gave Rob Page a 4 year deal , obsessed with the women’s game ( wonder why ?? ) and building 3G pitches in the middle of nowhere!!

[welshrover]

Perhaps we need to start finding good players around the world and "give them a passport"

The guy who got two last night born Argentina, the impressive midfielder Nigeria.

It seems to be working for Armenia.

[marsvolta]

Jun 17, 2023 0:13:34 GMT toshfan said:

Jun 16, 2023 23:35:36 GMT marsvolta said:

Was going to avoid coming on here as I’m sure that some of our regulars will feel like they’ve hit jackpot tonight but I’ve got to speak about the ref.

Firstly, no excuses, we were second best and the ref didn’t beat us, Armenia did.

However, how can the ref stand back and watch all those play acting antics, all the extended time wasting, all the dirty tactics, and not do anything about it. He kept pointing to his watch as if to say that he is keeping track of the time wasting, then we only had 7 mins!!!! Surely all the substitutions came to 7 mins alone. Total farce.

Again, for avoidance of doubt, I don’t think we’d have won anyway, but Armenia tonight was not a good advert for football.(congratulating the keeper for the dramatics that led to the red was a particular low)

Armenia were a good advert for football. They were fast, fluent and clinical. We were none of those things.
The referee was fine. Red card accurate. 7 minutes added time felt accurate to me.

I wasn’t talking about how they played, they were excellent and very good value for their win,I meant the dirty tactics and the play acting

[Belle Vue]

Surely we don’t need to start handing out passports to players just for us to compete with Armenia etc
The players we have are sub standard for sure but with a top top manager / head coach who actually knows what he’s doing we can start winning football matches

[aberbeeg]

Jun 16, 2023 23:35:36 GMT marsvolta said:

Was going to avoid coming on here as I’m sure that some of our regulars will feel like they’ve hit jackpot tonight but I’ve got to speak about the ref.

Firstly, no excuses, we were second best and the ref didn’t beat us, Armenia did.

However, how can the ref stand back and watch all those play acting antics, all the extended time wasting, all the dirty tactics, and not do anything about it. He kept pointing to his watch as if to say that he is keeping track of the time wasting, then we only had 7 mins!!!! Surely all the substitutions came to 7 mins alone. Total farce.

Again, for avoidance of doubt, I don’t think we’d have won anyway, but Armenia tonight was not a good advert for football.(congratulating the keeper for the dramatics that led to the red was a particular low)

Firstly they are allowed to make substitutions as and when they wish,secondly they had already scored 4 by that point. I think you should be questioning our third rate managers tactics instead maybe ? 

[aberbeeg]

Jun 17, 2023 5:14:24 GMT Belle Vue said:

To many players / staff in the comfort zone
How many staff in the dug out compared to Armenia
I counted
Page £220k a year
Knill
Roberts
Assistant coach
Kit man
Doctor
Physio
2 x Sports Scientists
Video Analysis
Ian Mitchell

Probably a lot more in the background- seriously we are Wales not Germany or Spain , this is where our money is spent , oh and let’s not forget Noel Mooney who gave Rob Page a 4 year deal , obsessed with the women’s game ( wonder why ?? ) and building 3G pitches in the middle of nowhere!!

Good point actually 

[talyfan]

Jun 17, 2023 5:39:58 GMT welshrover said:

Perhaps we need to start finding good players around the world and "give them a passport"

The guy who got two last night born Argentina, the impressive midfielder Nigeria.

It seems to be working for Armenia.

We can't unfortunately under the home nations agreement. It's why after years we couldn't call up Angel Rangel.

[hooky]

Woke up this morning in a serene mood and then I remembered the horror show.

Thoughts on things:

1. Page really is a very poor coach. Tactics are limited, midfield is far too open (ffs - on the transition - opposition are just running through the middle of the pitch at will and reaching our opposition box with limited effort), performance levels are far too inconsistent, he can't influence a game via a change in tactics or substitutions. Broadhead working our versus Croatia was luck - now he turns to him and will continue to turn to him but the guy is bang average. Our masterclasses against Czech Republic, Turkey and Austria owed far more to the impact of 2 special players, as well and not his tactical genius. James also played a big role in holding things together through his work ethic and consistently good performances

2. We do not work hard compared to other teams. This was evident during the World cup. Is this a legacy of building the environment around Bale, who liked things relaxed? If so he is gone now. We are either very unathletic compared to even the likes of Armenia or the coaches are not insisting / training for the intensity required. On the ball, Armenia always seemed to have space - that is players working hard off the ball to get into space and maybe positioning. With Wales we seem far more crammed / pressured when playing from the back and through midfield. Is this down to coaching?

3. Technically going backwards. Under Giggs players were always looking to pass forward. It is maddening seeing players like Roberts preferring to pass backwards and sideways so many times - he was far more forward looking in the past. Is this coaching again? We have little invention and our passing is poor in condensed areas and so we need to get the ball forward when we can (and not just smash it forward to Moore) - we would rather take a risk playing it around the back under pressure rather than playing it forward under pressure ffs.

4. Ward was nowhere near any of the goals. They were excellently taken but is it his positioning, his lack of reflexes or a combination of the two?

5. Players with little match practise are killing us - maybe that explains our lack of energy. Ward, Mepham, Rodon, James, Moore< Wilson and Davies (the latter two have been injured for a long period of course before playing a couple of games at end of season) hardly played for their clubs through the second half of the season. Then Neco and Brooks come on. Meanwhile Brennan missed the last 3 games (dropped) for his club.

6. Ramsey is nowhere near the player he was and has looked poor for the last 12 months.

7. The defence. The biggest shambles and how is this possible when Page and his #2 were central bloody defenders? Shows what a dreadful coach he is. Rodon is now a catastrophe at the back, while you seldom see any team (tier 4 included) leaving players unmarked in the middle of the goal like we did several times when we had 3 players either side - I don't understand how that is possible? Then the pressing of the opposition around our box is totally absent. Are they lazy, stupid, unfit or not drilled to do this? Roberts gets drawn into the centre and leaves an overlap so many times but does not do this at Burnley? Why are they so chaotic for Wales at the back? Why aren't they drilled? I never thought I'd say this but I wish Lockyear had been available - so we could get Rodon away from the pitch. We gifted them 2 goals thanks to Rodon and Morrell of course - 2-2 and we could have nicked a win. The defence really need to look at themselves - they were unprofessional and the standard of the defending was not even schoolboy level - it should never be that bad at this level and again you have to wonder what the coaches are doing with them in training?

8. I know we have limited options - but seeing players like Morrell, Broadhead and Bradshaw come on when we need to turn things around makes your heart sink. With all due respect they are extremely average and none of them are going to reach international level. Johnson was poor assist aside but we are not getting him in the game and you would rather have him on to nick or assist a goal late on then Broadhead or Bradshaw ffs. Page is clueless. Morrell should be nowhere near this level - struggles to get in the Portsmouth team! If Jordan James is better / has potential is it not worth starting to use him. Other teams pick youngsters rather than 3rd division journeymen. I recognise we have limited options off the bench and so this perhaps reflects the mediocrity of the bench (and maybe the team)

9. Lack of goalscoring threats from midfield. He may be average but is not Harris supposed to be a prolific scorer at U21 level? Maybe that means nothing but we don't know because he has not even had a minute for Wales. Page - we had Nation League matches to learn about him and Jordan and you did not give them a minute you muppet, while losing 5 and drawing 1. Well done again!

10. Armenia's best players were far better than ours. Our team now is very average and we look like we need a massive dose of luck to get good results, given our coaching is having a negative impact and the lack of any top end players (I had hoped Brennan could get there / I still do).

Are there better alternatives to Page who could get the best out of a limited team and would want to coach us for the salary on offer? All these managers we come up against seems to have organised teams where everyone knows what they are doing unlike us, even the minnows.

11. I hope we are better than Latvia because we certainly look no better than 4th best in our group


Only bright spot - David Brooks. He is nowhere near match fit but at least he was trying and is inventive.

If we qualified in the top 2 it would be a miracle given this team and their lack of energy, concentration and quality and the seeming absence of any coaching.

[conwy10]

Jun 17, 2023 4:07:55 GMT talyfan said:

conwy10

As a pairing Rodon and Mepham have done their time. Rodon the weaker link of the two. If Lockyer was available I'd genuinely would have been tempted to go with Lockyer and Cabango against Turkey or one of us!!

No 6 that Iwu looked decent. Look at their fourth goal. Busts a gut to press Morrell.

The type of midfielder we're crying out for. Quick and athletic enough to get back and fourth up and down the pitch.

The spine of the team definitely needs looking at.

I've got no idea who he plays for, but if I was his agent last night match would be sent to every top club in Europe. No doubt we bought out the best in him but he looked like Makelele. If he was Welsh we'd soon train that out of him.

[marsvolta]

Jun 17, 2023 6:24:02 GMT aberbeeg said:

Jun 16, 2023 23:35:36 GMT marsvolta said:

Was going to avoid coming on here as I’m sure that some of our regulars will feel like they’ve hit jackpot tonight but I’ve got to speak about the ref.

Firstly, no excuses, we were second best and the ref didn’t beat us, Armenia did.

However, how can the ref stand back and watch all those play acting antics, all the extended time wasting, all the dirty tactics, and not do anything about it. He kept pointing to his watch as if to say that he is keeping track of the time wasting, then we only had 7 mins!!!! Surely all the substitutions came to 7 mins alone. Total farce.

Again, for avoidance of doubt, I don’t think we’d have won anyway, but Armenia tonight was not a good advert for football.(congratulating the keeper for the dramatics that led to the red was a particular low)

Firstly they are allowed to make substitutions as and when they wish,secondly they had already scored 4 by that point. I think you should be questioning our third rate managers tactics instead maybe ? 

I clearly stated on two occasions in my relatively short post that I was not using it as an excuse, we’d have lost anyway and wasn’t the real problem, yet you seem to have ignored that.

Secondly, I didn’t say that they weren’t allowed to make substitutions (what a bizarre take!). I meant that the substitutions took most of the added 7 minutes which means that the ref didn’t add much time on for the time wasting (but I suspect you knew that is what I meant )

[aberbeeg]

Jun 17, 2023 7:42:04 GMT marsvolta said:

Jun 17, 2023 6:24:02 GMT aberbeeg said:

Firstly they are allowed to make substitutions as and when they wish,secondly they had already scored 4 by that point. I think you should be questioning our third rate managers tactics instead maybe ? 

I clearly stated on two occasions in my relatively short post that I was not using it as an excuse, we’d have lost anyway and wasn’t the real problem, yet you seem to have ignored that.

Secondly, I didn’t say that they weren’t allowed to make substitutions (what a bizarre take!). I meant that the substitutions took most of the added 7 minutes which means that the ref didn’t add much time on for the time wasting (but I suspect you knew that is what I meant )

I was talking tongue in cheek but obviously you didn’t get it. Anyway there were far more negatives to moan about . Rob page and his third rate coaches please take a bow.

[conwy10]

Jun 17, 2023 7:18:12 GMT hooky said:

Woke up this morning in a serene mood and then I remembered the horror show.

Thoughts on things:

1. Page really is a very poor coach. Tactics are limited, midfield is far too open (ffs - on the transition - opposition are just running through the middle of the pitch at will and reaching our opposition box with limited effort), performance levels are far too inconsistent, he can't influence a game via a change in tactics or substitutions. Broadhead working our versus Croatia was luck - now he turns to him and will continue to turn to him but the guy is bang average. Our masterclasses against Czech Republic, Turkey and Austria owed far more to the impact of 2 special players, as well and not his tactical genius. James also played a big role in holding things together through his work ethic and consistently good performances

2. We do not work hard compared to other teams. This was evident during the World cup. Is this a legacy of building the environment around Bale, who liked things relaxed? If so he is gone now. We are either very unathletic compared to even the likes of Armenia or the coaches are not insisting / training for the intensity required. On the ball, Armenia always seemed to have space - that is players working hard off the ball to get into space and maybe positioning. With Wales we seem far more crammed / pressured when playing from the back and through midfield. Is this down to coaching?

3. Technically going backwards. Under Giggs players were always looking to pass forward. It is maddening seeing players like Roberts preferring to pass backwards and sideways so many times - he was far more forward looking in the past. Is this coaching again? We have little invention and our passing is poor in condensed areas and so we need to get the ball forward when we can (and not just smash it forward to Moore) - we would rather take a risk playing it around the back under pressure rather than playing it forward under pressure ffs.

4. Ward was nowhere near any of the goals. They were excellently taken but is it his positioning, his lack of reflexes or a combination of the two?

5. Players with little match practise are killing us - maybe that explains our lack of energy. Ward, Mepham, Rodon, James, Moore< Wilson and Davies (the latter two have been injured for a long period of course before playing a couple of games at end of season) hardly played for their clubs through the second half of the season. Then Neco and Brooks come on. Meanwhile Brennan missed the last 3 games (dropped) for his club.

6. Ramsey is nowhere near the player he was and has looked poor for the last 12 months.

7. The defence. The biggest shambles and how is this possible when Page and his #2 were central bloody defenders? Shows what a dreadful coach he is. Rodon is now a catastrophe at the back, while you seldom see any team (tier 4 included) leaving players unmarked in the middle of the goal like we did several times when we had 3 players either side - I don't understand how that is possible? Then the pressing of the opposition around our box is totally absent. Are they lazy, stupid, unfit or not drilled to do this? Roberts gets drawn into the centre and leaves an overlap so many times but does not do this at Burnley? Why are they so chaotic for Wales at the back? Why aren't they drilled? I never thought I'd say this but I wish Lockyear had been available - so we could get Rodon away from the pitch. We gifted them 2 goals thanks to Rodon and Morrell of course - 2-2 and we could have nicked a win. The defence really need to look at themselves - they were unprofessional and the standard of the defending was not even schoolboy level - it should never be that bad at this level and again you have to wonder what the coaches are doing with them in training?

8. I know we have limited options - but seeing players like Morrell, Broadhead and Bradshaw come on when we need to turn things around makes your heart sink. With all due respect they are extremely average and none of them are going to reach international level. Johnson was poor assist aside but we are not getting him in the game and you would rather have him on to nick or assist a goal late on then Broadhead or Bradshaw ffs. Page is clueless. Morrell should be nowhere near this level - struggles to get in the Portsmouth team! If Jordan James is better / has potential is it not worth starting to use him. Other teams pick youngsters rather than 3rd division journeymen. I recognise we have limited options off the bench and so this perhaps reflects the mediocrity of the bench (and maybe the team)

9. Lack of goalscoring threats from midfield. He may be average but is not Harris supposed to be a prolific scorer at U21 level? Maybe that means nothing but we don't know because he has not even had a minute for Wales. Page - we had Nation League matches to learn about him and Jordan and you did not give them a minute you muppet, while losing 5 and drawing 1. Well done again!

10. Armenia's best players were far better than ours. Our team now is very average and we look like we need a massive dose of luck to get good results, given our coaching is having a negative impact and the lack of any top end players (I had hoped Brennan could get there / I still do).

Are there better alternatives to Page who could get the best out of a limited team and would want to coach us for the salary on offer? All these managers we come up against seems to have organised teams where everyone knows what they are doing unlike us, even the minnows.

11. I hope we are better than Latvia because we certainly look no better than 4th best in our group


Only bright spot - David Brooks. He is nowhere near match fit but at least he was trying and is inventive.

If we qualified in the top 2 it would be a miracle given this team and their lack of energy, concentration and quality and the seeming absence of any coaching.

I really agree with everything you put, good write up. Has anyone noticed too since Bale retired the biggest change to our game plan has been long throws? I don't mind long throws but it seems to be all we have now. Are we just completely out of other ideas or working with a good asset we have? I think I know which one it is.