Cymru v Turkey 6/9/24

[hooky]

Sept 6, 2024 20:51:02 GMT evans1282 said:

Sept 6, 2024 20:46:59 GMT hooky said:

Promising means zero

I pray Koumas becomes a proven goalscorer. How many players failed to even hit the target when having a sight of goal?

FFS typical hooky post, negative cont

Realistic. The finishing was dreadful - just looked at the stats too:

Two thirds of the possession
Played against 10 men at home for the last 20+ mins
15 shots but just one on target. Lets be honest - that is abysmal. Why can all players comfortably stroke the ball around but can't hit the target!

You can definitely see Bellamy is a massive upgrade on Page and Sorba was the massive positive tonight - welcome back Sorba! Roberts was also more effective

Johnson needs a big dose of confidence and Neco was surprisingly poor at times in terms of totally forgetting to mark his man
 

[surge]

Not sure fans knew how to react to such a different style and we definitely need some new songs, but on the pitch there were plenty of positives.

We didn't look like we were four days in to completely new style of play which suggests the team are good at getting messages across and players are ready to pick them up.

Aside from that, considering how early days it is, not sure there is too much more to say.

Special mention for Sorba Thomas and Ramsey who perhaps hadn't made a mark before (former) or for a while (latter) and performed really well.

[winsumluzsum]

Ramsey was a bit hit and miss for me. Excellent ball over the top for Sorba's offside goal. But should have buried that early headed opportunity. Still an improvement on recent performances.

[athenempadu]

A few observations.

Ampadu is the heartbeat of the team.
Play Johnson down the middle.
Ramsey's body can't do what his mind wants it to do.
Give the ball to Koumas whenever he is on the pitch.

[quetzal]

By God we miss Bale

[winsumluzsum]

Sept 6, 2024 21:36:55 GMT quetzal said:

By God we miss Bale

He'll want to come out of retirement seeing the way we play. I'm only half joking. Wouldn't be surprised to see Joe Allen make a comeback too.

[morg]

Sept 6, 2024 21:30:16 GMT athenempadu said:

A few observations.

Ampadu is the heartbeat of the team.
Play Johnson down the middle.
Ramsey's body can't do what his mind wants it to do.
Give the ball to Koumas whenever he is on the pitch.

Don't know if it's the hair, but Ampadu looked 'bigger' somehow. A real presence in centre midfield.

What a selection Sorba was.

Can't wait to see Dan James and Brooks come into contention.

66% possession against a decent team.

Aside from the on pitch positives, was telling to see an engaged coaching team on the sidelines, constantly discussing developments, reviewing plays and erm... Talking to each other! Thought Bellamy played the 4th official well too. Constantly in his ear but always with a smile.

Very promising start. Much better than I'd hoped as didn't think 4 days of coaching could have had such a positive effect.

[bobbyghoul]

A much more positive performance than I was expecting as I thought it might take Bellamy longer to implement his style.

Ramsey, Sorba, Ampadu, Roberts, Rodon, Davies, Wilson and Neco played well.

James looked very rusty. Johnson's end product was a concern but the underlying ability is clearly there.

Ward is mildly terrifying with the ball at his feet.

[athenempadu]

Sept 6, 2024 21:44:54 GMT morg said:

Don't know if it's the hair, but Ampadu looked 'bigger' somehow. A real presence in centre midfield.

I think he looks better as lone DM, which is how he often played out in Italy. The double pivot is too pedestrian, with a lot of playing the the ball sideways, and the same thing happens at Leeds. The Galatasaray fans were quite impressed with his performance on Twitter/X.

[dragon64]

More to come from 'outstanding' Wales, says Bellamy in after match interview

[jimexotic]

"That's the worst we'll play"

A little bit of fine tuning and we could become a real bogey team.

[bobbyghoul]

Sept 6, 2024 23:09:27 GMT jimexotic said:

"That's the worst we'll play"

A little bit of fine tuning and we could become a real bogey team.

Hmmmmmm. I predict that is definitely not the worst we'll play under Bellamy.

Hell, given our abysmal record in double-headers it probably won't be the worst we'll play this month.

[dragon64]

Sept 6, 2024 22:36:26 GMT bobbyghoul said:

A much more positive performance than I was expecting as I thought it might take Bellamy longer to implement his style.

Ramsey, Sorba, Ampadu, Roberts, Rodon, Davies, Wilson and Neco played well.

James looked very rusty. Johnson's end product was a concern but the underlying ability is clearly there.

Ward is mildly terrifying with the ball at his feet.

agree with you

Neco wasnt as good as he can be, but he was playing in CM at times and asked to do something different , still think he played well though, he didnt need to bomb on down the left Sorba was dominating that

Brennan is he going to be that player for us? I still dont know cant fault his work rate today and again dropping into CM out of possession, but the end product where it was needed is frustrating [perhaps play him at 9]

it was very fluid and good to watch but do we need someone to be the central striker, at times we had the top 3/4 moving about really well but there was no focal point to get that end product.Ramsey did well at linking things but this needs to be tweaked IMO
Its early days very impressed and sure it will come good 

It will be interesting to see what happens when we play teams who we should be beating,
we need  a finisher of the current squad Koumas looks like the person who will have a go, he seems pretty fearless,

so I would like to see him be given a go in the middle he isnt a no.9 I know but until Kieffer came on we didnt have one really. The other option is Harris/Brennan and I would have no problem with giving either a go.

 We had a few players missing from the squad but of those who would get into the starting Xl after tonight?
when they are back the bench would look a lot stronger and give us much more options 

[talyfan]

Plenty of positives nice to actually see a game plan.

Sorba a real positive that type of player who's direct and not scared to take players on but also has a really good work rate off the ball and out of possession.

Always feel Brennan is a proper system player. Good player when you get it right but not the type of player to take the game by the scruff of the neck and get you over the line. See how he does against Montenegro if he starts.

Agree with the focal point. Harris ticks all the boxes, would be good to see him there.

Fair play to Ward too playing out of his comfort zone today did look shaky at times but can't fault him for much. His long range passes at time were a bit wayward but we need one of the young lads emerging soon to be adept with their feet as much as they are with their hands.

[marsvolta]

Interesting that in the interview after the game that Sorba said something like he ‘needed to change some things about myself and my personality’ after being left out of the squad previously..

[melynwy]

Sept 6, 2024 21:21:15 GMT hooky said:

Sept 6, 2024 20:51:02 GMT evans1282 said:

FFS typical hooky post, negative cont

Realistic.

🙄! A weird reaility from where I’m standing.

It’s also realistic to say that we dominated against a Euro quarter finalist, totally controlled possession and space and created loads of good chances. It wouldn’t have taken a better performance to win 3-0.

As I said previously, I think shots ond targets is a meaningless statistics, so you’re not going to convince me by repeatedly going on about. I’d argue that the sitters we missed were not typical of our players- Ramsey usually connects with a header like that, and any professional player would hope to score Rodon’s chance!

[aberbeeg]

I felt it was a massive upgrade on the likes of Rob Pages previous management style. Extremely fluid movement and interchangeable throughout the team.

Still got big doubts about Brennans end product but his work rate definitely improved under Bellamy.

Bellamy definitely surprised me by how mature he came across and you can see the players definitely buy into his style.

[erasedcitizen]

We need for song for Sorba right away, excellent player.

Finishing woeful, everything else superb. So many positives last night.

[welrus]

Well, except for not winning (which we deserved) the best performance we could have hoped for under a new manager. Great start.

The positives for me fluid, high intensity and players seem full of confidence. We missed a couple of sitters that on another day would have gone in. Considering the style play few errors. A real step up on Page tactics. I was sceptical about Bellamy but great job. Great to see him on the touch line giving thumbs up and encouragement to the players. I like that he was taking advice and chatting to his assistants. And great to have a manager who talks to the player(s) in short breaks in play tweaking tactics. So often missing from Page. And he seemed relatively level headed.

The worries. It’s inevitable we will give some goals away at some point with our play out from the back. That’s going to be expensive in some matches. We maybe enjoying a honeymoon, not only with a new manager bounce but more so that Turkey won’t have been able to prepare as well since we had no track record under Bellamy - the opposition will learn. Also not a wise comment from Bellamy “that’s the worse we’ll play”. He’s going to be eating those words. Not sure we looked that secure in defence under set pieces, but weren’t tested much.

But overall fantastic start to Bellamy’s reign - deserves credit. And enjoyable too!

[marsvolta]

Sept 7, 2024 6:54:36 GMT aberbeeg said:

I felt it was a massive upgrade on the likes of Rob Pages previous management style. Extremely fluid movement and interchangeable throughout the team.

Still got big doubts about Brennans end product but his work rate definitely improved under Bellamy.

Bellamy definitely surprised me by how mature he came across and you can see the players definitely buy into his style.

Yeah, Brennan’s work rate was definitely better last night, especially in the second half.

[hooky]

As stated - the work rate last night was outstanding. Really don't get why Page never seemed to demand a higher work rate, better closing down from top to back

Nice to see a manager who obviously works very hard, has a plan and playbook of tactics and is constantly focused on the match and how things can be improved / tweaked rather than someone who at time appeared to be more a spectator rather than an influencer

Sorba deserved that goal so much. He is a man on a mission - you can tell.

We seriously need a finisher though and a consistent play making midfielder to take over from Ramsey. We hopefully find combinations capable of creating clear cut oppoftunities. Johnson should have perhaps been the best option for a goalscoerer but he seems stymied since he has joined Spurs - he is no longer scoring (much) or creating - was a negative move for him so far. Don't get why so many of our players are poor in front of goal - not just tonight.

Hopefully the next generation are gonna bring us goalscorers - we have Koumas and two young Welsh U19 strikers at Man Utd and Brentford look promising

I really hope we can beat Montenegro but lets be honest - we could easily slip up there if we fail to take our chances again

Personally I am not sure I'd play Wilson and Ramsey together. Interesting point about playing 2 holding midfielders yesterday. I however think it maybe disappointed a little because JJ has not been getting much game time at his new French club (I hope that is not a sign of things to come!). He is the one of the two to push further forward (we have seen it at Birmingham) so I think it will become more fluid - as he is far more productive in the final third of the pitch than Ampadu

[allezlesrouges]

We did to Turkey what other teams have done to us loads of times in recent times. Dominated the space and forced them to play the game at our pace. So refreshing to watch! A few times Turkey were under pressure and just booted it forward, and that reminded me a lot of what happened to us under Page

Thought Ward did well, obviously we'd like a different profile of GK that plays at club level, but he dealt with the expectations of him well. It's a very De Zerbi/Brighton/Crofts way of playing to have the GK put his foot on the ball and wait for a striker to press - that's his trigger to pass the ball. The theory being is if they're committing a player to pressing the keeper that means there is a spare man outfield somewhere - it creates an overload. Looks risky at times but hopefully we just keep getting better and better at it

The goals will come, I'm not too concerned about that. I'm sure there will be changes of personnel for the Montenegro game, as Bellamy will have analysed their weaknesses. My guess would be seeing Kieffer start, or maybe Harris. Montenegro are a bit weaker and I don't think we'll require as many midfielders to help with the build up. Montenegro more likely to sit back and pack the box, someone like Kieffer would be useful to hopefully convert the large amount of possession we will probably have

[ddirpytnop]

A pretty good start to Bellamy's tenure. I think the players did everything that was asked of them in terms of the new style of play. My only criticism was the choice of subs. Moore and Cooper were the wrong options in my opinion. Colwill and Harris would have been much more suited to the circumstances. I also thought that Neco looked knackered towards the end, which led to some uncharacteristic errors. Given that we had a ready-made replacement in Beck on the bench, I would have liked to have seen him used.

[iot]

Sept 7, 2024 8:43:38 GMT allezlesrouges said:

We did to Turkey what other teams have done to us loads of times in recent times. Dominated the space and forced them to play the game at our pace. So refreshing to watch! A few times Turkey were under pressure and just booted it forward, and that reminded me a lot of what happened to us under Page

Thought Ward did well, obviously we'd like a different profile of GK that plays at club level, but he dealt with the expectations of him well. It's a very De Zerbi/Brighton/Crofts way of playing to have the GK put his foot on the ball and wait for a striker to press - that's his trigger to pass the ball. The theory being is if they're committing a player to pressing the keeper that means there is a spare man outfield somewhere - it creates an overload. Looks risky at times but hopefully we just keep getting better and better at it

The goals will come, I'm not too concerned about that. I'm sure there will be changes of personnel for the Montenegro game, as Bellamy will have analysed their weaknesses. My guess would be seeing Kieffer start, or maybe Harris. Montenegro are a bit weaker and I don't think we'll require as many midfielders to help with the build up. Montenegro more likely to sit back and pack the box, someone like Kieffer would be useful to hopefully convert the large amount of possession we will probably have

That's a really good way of putting it. Seen lots of comments here and speaking to people yesterday about how Ward struggled with it and gave them palpitations, but he was just following the game plan and did a really good job of it overall. I think some people thought he was being unsure, indecisive and dawdling on the ball, whereas in reality he was waiting for that trigger and actively wanted to be pressed by one of their players before releasing the ball. I didn't think he had it in him to be honest, but was so impressed by the bravery he showed.

It will be interesting to see how Darlow copes when given the opportunity. One quick theory that's just come to me - I wonder if Darlow's decision to pursue international football is to demonstrate that he can play that role which requires top-level distribution, and in doing so get more opportunities with Leeds who obviously also demand something similar

[jbt95]

Sept 7, 2024 7:22:03 GMT marsvolta said:

Sept 7, 2024 6:54:36 GMT aberbeeg said:

Yeah, Brennan’s work rate was definitely better last night, especially in the second half.

His crossing was atrocious for a £47.5m player. I can see why Spurs fans are struggling to see how he justifies that price tag. 

[iot]

Such an encouraging performance - I really didn't expect us to nail the new style so quickly, but we did so from the first minute. The only negative obviously was the failure to score, particularly in the last 20 against 10 men where we didn't seem able to take advantage of the extra man, but many of the players looked completely spent which is not surprising. Bellamy's been so impressive and just so brave in everything he does - love to hear this comments after thew game about how this will be the worst we'll play. Obviously it could backfire spectacularly, but I imagine he's giving the players so much confidence and belief, and great to see how much they enjoyed playing last night. Can't wait to see where this goes - Bellamy could really have a profound impact on Welsh football imo

[allezlesrouges]

Sept 7, 2024 9:06:48 GMT iot said:

Sept 7, 2024 8:43:38 GMT allezlesrouges said:

We did to Turkey what other teams have done to us loads of times in recent times. Dominated the space and forced them to play the game at our pace. So refreshing to watch! A few times Turkey were under pressure and just booted it forward, and that reminded me a lot of what happened to us under Page

Thought Ward did well, obviously we'd like a different profile of GK that plays at club level, but he dealt with the expectations of him well. It's a very De Zerbi/Brighton/Crofts way of playing to have the GK put his foot on the ball and wait for a striker to press - that's his trigger to pass the ball. The theory being is if they're committing a player to pressing the keeper that means there is a spare man outfield somewhere - it creates an overload. Looks risky at times but hopefully we just keep getting better and better at it

The goals will come, I'm not too concerned about that. I'm sure there will be changes of personnel for the Montenegro game, as Bellamy will have analysed their weaknesses. My guess would be seeing Kieffer start, or maybe Harris. Montenegro are a bit weaker and I don't think we'll require as many midfielders to help with the build up. Montenegro more likely to sit back and pack the box, someone like Kieffer would be useful to hopefully convert the large amount of possession we will probably have

That's a really good way of putting it. Seen lots of comments here and speaking to people yesterday about how Ward struggled with it and gave them palpitations, but he was just following the game plan and did a really good job of it overall. I think some people thought he was being unsure, indecisive and dawdling on the ball, whereas in reality he was waiting for that trigger and actively wanted to be pressed by one of their players before releasing the ball. I didn't think he had it in him to be honest, but was so impressed by the bravery he showed.

It will be interesting to see how Darlow copes when given the opportunity. One quick theory that's just come to me - I wonder if Darlow's decision to pursue international football is to demonstrate that he can play that role which requires top-level distribution, and in doing so get more opportunities with Leeds who obviously also demand something similar

Yeah just watching now, and what I notice is Rodon-Ward-Davies line up as a 3 and face up against two of their forwards and just wait. When one of those forwards presses that's Ampadu's trigger to drop short for a pass and either Rodon or Davies move wider (depending on which side the forward presses from), so Ampadu is able to just play a first time pass to either Davies or Rodon and we get out quite neatly from there. It's really clever, and it's exactly how Brighton do it

[melynwy]

Sept 7, 2024 9:06:48 GMT iot said:

Sept 7, 2024 8:43:38 GMT allezlesrouges said:

We did to Turkey what other teams have done to us loads of times in recent times. Dominated the space and forced them to play the game at our pace. So refreshing to watch! A few times Turkey were under pressure and just booted it forward, and that reminded me a lot of what happened to us under Page

Thought Ward did well, obviously we'd like a different profile of GK that plays at club level, but he dealt with the expectations of him well. It's a very De Zerbi/Brighton/Crofts way of playing to have the GK put his foot on the ball and wait for a striker to press - that's his trigger to pass the ball. The theory being is if they're committing a player to pressing the keeper that means there is a spare man outfield somewhere - it creates an overload. Looks risky at times but hopefully we just keep getting better and better at it

The goals will come, I'm not too concerned about that. I'm sure there will be changes of personnel for the Montenegro game, as Bellamy will have analysed their weaknesses. My guess would be seeing Kieffer start, or maybe Harris. Montenegro are a bit weaker and I don't think we'll require as many midfielders to help with the build up. Montenegro more likely to sit back and pack the box, someone like Kieffer would be useful to hopefully convert the large amount of possession we will probably have

That's a really good way of putting it. Seen lots of comments here and speaking to people yesterday about how Ward struggled with it and gave them palpitations, but he was just following the game plan and did a really good job of it overall. I think some people thought he was being unsure, indecisive and dawdling on the ball, whereas in reality he was waiting for that trigger and actively wanted to be pressed by one of their players before releasing the ball. I didn't think he had it in him to be honest, but was so impressed by the bravery he showed.

It will be interesting to see how Darlow copes when given the opportunity. One quick theory that's just come to me - I wonder if Darlow's decision to pursue international football is to demonstrate that he can play that role which requires top-level distribution, and in doing so get more opportunities with Leeds who obviously also demand something similar

I totally agree with the reasoning, and I love that way of playing. I thought Ward followed orders well and ‘got’ it, but he still wasn’t particularly adept at it. He never angled himself even slightly to allow for an emergency plan b. I’m also always on edge by the habit Ward has if controlling and dragging the ball with the outside of his boot- it’s slow and imprecise, easy to miscontrol and can (and has) get him into trouble.

Like I said previously, this is a big part of this way of playing, so we really should use the GK best suited to it. It’s good that Ward understands the approach and is willing to adopt it, but it obviously didn’t come naturally to him.

[iot]

Player ratings:

Ward 8 - one mistake aside (which is typical for any keeper playing this way - I expected lots more!), thought he coped with the demands so well. Excellent distribution overall

Roberts 8 - no mistakes all game and he's so good at that inverted full back role, really good passing and buid-up play

Rodon and Davies 8 - both were very good defensively and great on the ball. Davies played an excellent crossfield pass to Johnson really early on which led to the first chance, and won the ball really high up the pitch a couple of times

Neco 7 - decent enough performance, although not as good as the others with a couple of mistakes

Ampadu 8 - agree with others that he looks bigger. Really good on the ball and shielded the defence well

James 6 - did well enough and pressed quite well on occasion, but didn't have much impact

Johnson 6.5 - whilst things didn't quite work out for him, I was so encouraged by his performance. His workrate was excellent. He was involved in a couple of chances with good play, but obviously very wasteful a couple of other occasions. He set up 10 goals in the Premier League last year doing exactly what he was asked to do yesterday, it just didn't quite come off for him this time, but it will come - I'm certain of that.

Sorba 8.5 - nothing to add to what others have said, he was our main threat and full of running. He seemed to be much quicker than I remembered!

Rambo 6.5 - mixed bag for him, like it's been for Cardiff. Some great bits of play - the ball for Sorba's 'goal', the ball through that led to the chance Brennan should have buried, and several other balls on the turn were of great quality. But also too slack in possession a few times which broke down attacks and almost led to a goal. But I think things could click for him soon and we'll see more of the Ramsey of old.

Wilson 6.5 - great long range effort, but I felt he was the quietest of our attacking options

[iot]

Sept 7, 2024 9:23:54 GMT melynwy said:

Sept 7, 2024 9:06:48 GMT iot said:

That's a really good way of putting it. Seen lots of comments here and speaking to people yesterday about how Ward struggled with it and gave them palpitations, but he was just following the game plan and did a really good job of it overall. I think some people thought he was being unsure, indecisive and dawdling on the ball, whereas in reality he was waiting for that trigger and actively wanted to be pressed by one of their players before releasing the ball. I didn't think he had it in him to be honest, but was so impressed by the bravery he showed.

It will be interesting to see how Darlow copes when given the opportunity. One quick theory that's just come to me - I wonder if Darlow's decision to pursue international football is to demonstrate that he can play that role which requires top-level distribution, and in doing so get more opportunities with Leeds who obviously also demand something similar

I totally agree with the reasoning, and I love that way of playing. I thought Ward followed orders well and ‘got’ it, but he still wasn’t particularly adept at it. He never angled himself even slightly to allow for an emergency plan b. I’m also always on edge by the habit Ward has if controlling and dragging the ball with the outside of his boot- it’s slow and imprecise, easy to miscontrol and can (and has) get him into trouble.

Like I said previously, this is a big part of this way of playing, so we really should use the GK best suited to it. It’s good that Ward understands the approach and is willing to adopt it, but it obviously didn’t come naturally to him.

I'm not sure I agree about him not angling himself correctly leading to a lack of Plan B. Whenever  I watch any team play this way, I see keepers (even those renowned as being brilliant distributors) being forced down a particular path and even having to take a highly risky approach of bluffing to pass and turning the other way when an attacker approaches. Ward did that on one occasion yesterday where he had an attacker breathing down his neck, and he fainted to pump it long but then dragged the ball the other way and completely done him. Obviously it's highly risky, but how many times do you see the likes of Neuer doing that? When he does it he gets praised as an excellent ball-playing keeper, but when Ward does the exact same thing he gets criticized. There was only one occasion where he played the wrong pass which could have led to a goal, but again you'll see that in most games in the premier league every weekend.