|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 16, 2024 20:11:59 GMT
What is Bellamy’s philosophy then? Zero shots on target and 11 men behind the ball. Must add I did not see first half. Hahaha yeah good point mate. I look forward to the emperors new clothes-ers to put a positive spin on this onez But to be fair I don’t want to be an asshole to fellow Wales fans even though I suspect they would enjoy an opportunity to be an asshole to me. We all want Wales to win and have different ideas show it should be achieved. Tonight I feel was a throwback to the Page years. I’ll take a backs to the wall 0-0 draw as proof that Bellamy can grind a result out. Let’s regroup and see what we get against Iceland How is it emperor's new clothes when we just bettered Page's result out in Turkey, and hit the post and had a disallowed goal along the way? You're forcing a comparison to Page that doesn't hold up I'm afraid |
|
|
|
Post by melynwy on Nov 16, 2024 20:15:51 GMT
'emperors new clothes-ers' - catchy... You have no idea of Bellamy's philosophy because you make several assumptions that are entirely incorrect. If you listen to what Bellamy actually says you'd know that, but you don't appear to follow what goes on outside of this forum / the actual games. If you listen to Bellamy speak you'd hear him say that he has no interest in retaining posession for posession's sake, that everything we do is with a purpose - with the intention of ultimately leading to chances - and his preference is to do that with as few passes as possible. But equally, there's no point just lumping it long without purpose because we're doomed to fail playing that way. We saw in the Turkey home game that some of our best chances came from really direct football, but crucially we'd manipulated the opposition into those scenarios through previous phases of play - by beating their press by playing it out really well and then giving us overloads, Turkey then decided to push up even more, which allowed Ward to ping it over the top a couple of times to Sorba who managed to get in behind. You've just got this lazy assumption - 'oh Bellamy is one of these progressive managers who likes to play tippy tappy football' - but that's just your misunderstanding of what he's all about I'm afraid. So how come we didn’t beat them then? If Bellamy was so forewarned and forearmed how come as quetzal pointed out we were behind in the stats count? Can we agree to can the triumphalism? Quetzal makes a good point that some of the newcomers to this forum have lowered the tone a bit and not for the better so that everyone feels like they have a dog in a race when ultimately we all surely want Wales to win and have different ideas how we get there? Let’s take a step back and chill and accept that Wales won a hard earned point away from home and live to fight another day. Honestly towards the end of the game in the pub I was in it all kicked off when someone chased a lad in and battered him in front of us. It wouldn’t have surprised me if it turned out that it was one one apostle taking offence at another at what Bellamy’s game plan would be. Chill the fuck out. It’s just football I agree with you, but replies like “cry more” in response to a fair comment about football systems isn’t really helping either. It’s totally fair to disagree ond tactics and systems, and I agree with Iot that a lot of the people who are vocal against “progressive” or “modern” tactics don’t really understand the principles and why it’s being done, and why it can be so effective. And as to your “why didn’t we win then?” comment- well, Turkey are a good side. A better side than us really. Even the greatest coaches with the best honed systems don’t win every game. |
|
|
|
Post by morg on Nov 16, 2024 20:16:10 GMT
Probably one of my misplaced flights of fancy, but anyone else think that Colwill could have done a job coming on for Harris (in the same role). Has all the attributes. Interestingly though Bellamy thinks his future may be in a deeper role.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 16, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
If Harris is out with concussion for the Iceland game, and I'd be surprised if he wasn't, surely we have to call up Will Evans.
|
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 20:19:09 GMT
So how come we didn’t beat them then? If Bellamy was so forewarned and forearmed how come as quetzal pointed out we were behind in the stats count? Can we agree to can the triumphalism? Quetzal makes a good point that some of the newcomers to this forum have lowered the tone a bit and not for the better so that everyone feels like they have a dog in a race when ultimately we all surely want Wales to win and have different ideas how we get there? Let’s take a step back and chill and accept that Wales won a hard earned point away from home and live to fight another day. Honestly towards the end of the game in the pub I was in it all kicked off when someone chased a lad in and battered him in front of us. It wouldn’t have surprised me if it turned out that it was one one apostle taking offence at another at what Bellamy’s game plan would be. Chill the fuck out. It’s just football I agree with you, but replies like “cry more” in response to a fair comment about football systems isn’t really helping either. It’s totally fair to disagree ond tactics and systems, and I agree with Iot that a lot of the people who are vocal against “progressive” or “modern” tactics don’t really understand the principles and why it’s being done, and why it can be so effective. And as to your “why didn’t we win then?” comment- well, Turkey are a good side. A better side than us really. Even the greatest coaches with the best honed systems don’t win every game. Yeah spot on that mate. I hold my hands up that I’ve let it get to me and I apologise unreservedly. It feels like in the modern era of YouTube analysts people are more wedded to being right in their tactical understanding than ever before, like their kid’s food depends on whether they understand and can predict Wales tactics better than some other random twat off the street. Let’s have our opinions , make our predictions good or bad and ultimately get behind the team and then acknowledge who called it right afterwards in a civilised manner. We’re getting like the fucking English which is pathetic and makes me sad to see it |
|
|
|
Post by cadno on Nov 16, 2024 20:20:53 GMT
Var make those offside lines up at times, they could show whatever they want on a screen. Good away performance
|
|
|
|
Post by surge on Nov 16, 2024 20:21:27 GMT
C'mon guys, we just got a good point while missing a relatively long list of key players and having stood up well to intense pressure.
Bellamy and Page have very different intentions but each smart enough to make tweaks to their plans, certainly before the game. I think football philosophy has been a bit confused but it's not that important. But I do think we were either forced out of our ideal game plan or we moved away from it in order to survive and get to next interval in the game.
I don't think there is a player I would criticise tonight. Everyone was very brave.
I gave my list of key questions earlier. I guess the one I don't know the answer to yet is whether we executed our attacking philosophy enough having come through the pressure.
|
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 20:29:01 GMT
C'mon guys, we just got a good point while missing a relatively long list of key players and having stood up well to intense pressure. Bellamy and Page have very different intentions but each smart enough to make tweaks to their plans, certainly before the game. I think football philosophy has been a bit confused but it's not that important. But I do think we were either forced out of our ideal game plan or we moved away from it in order to survive and get to next interval in the game. I don't think there is a player I would criticise tonight. Everyone was very brave. I gave my list of key questions earlier. I guess the one I don't know the answer to yet is whether we executed our attacking philosophy enough having come through the pressure. Yeah mate exactly right and to an extent how I saw it too. Bellamy adapted it seemed to me. We relinquished the idea of topping the group in favour of ekeing out a draw. To me that’s a positive. Bellamy has big ideas but the humility to go longer, take a few less risks in the second half shows that he’s aware of the bigger picture. I liken it to the Belgium draw that lead to the Euro 2016 campaign. Let’s take a draw in a touch environment, all the more that the useless cunts missed a pen, and regroup and come back undefeated for the next campaign. |
|
|
|
Post by jono on Nov 16, 2024 20:29:31 GMT
Just can't see the appeal of Johnson. Bumbles around the pitch like the big hyena God he thinks he is. You only have to see the reverse angle of Bale's goal against Austria. Stood on the touchline with Levitt and another player. Zero reaction whatsoever from any of them. That'd be enough for me. You're out. |
|
|
|
Post by dai on Nov 16, 2024 20:32:36 GMT
Probably one of my misplaced flights of fancy, but anyone else think that Colwill could have done a job coming on for Harris (in the same role). Has all the attributes. Interestingly though Bellamy thinks his future may be in a deeper role. Yes, consudering Colwill is one of the most inform chship players, I wss dissappointed not to see him come on. We were outmuscled a lot by Turkey, and we could have done with him instead of Cullen. Im surprised how much Bellamy has used Cullen. I’m hoping we see Colwill against Iceland. |
|
|
|
Post by iot on Nov 16, 2024 20:32:56 GMT
'emperors new clothes-ers' - catchy... You have no idea of Bellamy's philosophy because you make several assumptions that are entirely incorrect. If you listen to what Bellamy actually says you'd know that, but you don't appear to follow what goes on outside of this forum / the actual games. If you listen to Bellamy speak you'd hear him say that he has no interest in retaining posession for posession's sake, that everything we do is with a purpose - with the intention of ultimately leading to chances - and his preference is to do that with as few passes as possible. But equally, there's no point just lumping it long without purpose because we're doomed to fail playing that way. We saw in the Turkey home game that some of our best chances came from really direct football, but crucially we'd manipulated the opposition into those scenarios through previous phases of play - by beating their press by playing it out really well and then giving us overloads, Turkey then decided to push up even more, which allowed Ward to ping it over the top a couple of times to Sorba who managed to get in behind. You've just got this lazy assumption - 'oh Bellamy is one of these progressive managers who likes to play tippy tappy football' - but that's just your misunderstanding of what he's all about I'm afraid. So how come we didn’t beat them then? If Bellamy was so forewarned and forearmed how come as quetzal pointed out we were behind in the stats count? Can we agree to can the triumphalism? Quetzal makes a good point that some of the newcomers to this forum have lowered the tone a bit and not for the better so that everyone feels like they have a dog in a race when ultimately we all surely want Wales to win and have different ideas how we get there? Let’s take a step back and chill and accept that Wales won a hard earned point away from home and live to fight another day. Honestly towards the end of the game in the pub I was in it all kicked off when someone chased a lad in and battered him in front of us. It wouldn’t have surprised me if it turned out that it was one one apostle taking offence at another at what Bellamy’s game plan would be. Chill the fuck out. It’s just football 'So how come we didn’t beat them then?' Err, because they have a much better set of players possibly? 'If Bellamy was so forewarned and forearmed how come as quetzal pointed out we were behind in the stats count?' I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here? We had less posession because they were able to get on top thanks to some of the excellent players they have in midfield - Calhanoglu and Guller in particular. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to dominate them and play our own game. We pressed highly at times which worked really well and led to some of our early chances. We played it out a couple of times really well too. Are you suggesting we should have just lumped it long to the likes of Harris every time we received some pressure? As for the rest of your post, people get annoyed by incessantly negative posts, particularly when they're based on a complete misunderstanding of what we're tryiing to do. Like, you colud have avoided making dozens of misinformed posts by spending a few mintes listening to Bellamy explaining his philosophy. |
|
|
|
Post by surge on Nov 16, 2024 20:46:22 GMT
Just can't see the appeal of Johnson. Bumbles around the pitch like the big hyena God he thinks he is. You only have to see the reverse angle of Bale's goal against Austria. Stood on the touchline with Levitt and another player. Zero reaction whatsoever from any of them. That'd be enough for me. You're out. I strongly disagree with this. I liked what Brennan Johnson did tonight and think you're going back into the history books to criticise him in a way I don't think is fair. I might just need to give this site a bit of a miss on match days. So many passionate Welsh fans, some with their own pots they want to stir... Every past manager has had a performance to join fans and squad together which boosts performances going forward. This might be it for Bellamy, plenty of hwyl tonight. |
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Nov 16, 2024 20:48:21 GMT
Good overall away performance against a decent team
When you are fielding players like Cullen, Harris and Sheehan then you have clear weaknesses and can't expect to dominate against a good team
Big positive was Darlow. Far better stopper one on one with a striker (Ward gets too easily beaten) and far more composed. He is surely the #1 by a good margin now
Rodon was pretty outstanding too. JJ was rusty but sometimes he led the way in terms of composure! Hope he gets game time or goes on loan
Considering they are Premiership level players - our attacking players such as Wilson, James and especially Brennan and even Brooks were disappointing and should be doing better. Cullen should be nowhere near the squad - what on earth has he done at Swansea or recently for Wales to suggest he can be a game breaker off the bench. Koumas is not kicking doors down but he has better attributes in a forward role than Cullen. Harris is a willing work horse but lacks quality. Sorba lacks a bit of quality but he gives work rate and he helps get us up the pitch.
People must be blind if they do not see we are better under Bellamy than Page. We drew with Turkey twice - you do not luck that out and don't forget we scored a disallowed goal and hit the post in the first half - which had an element of bad luck. Page's Wales in Turkey were on the back foot the entire time and look at how open to making substitutes regularly Bellamy is. With Page he would wait ..... and wait .... and wait until we conceded a goal under continued pressure or missed opportunities to change things - witness his employment of subs versus Poland!
Lets hope we put Iceland away on Tuesday!
|
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 20:52:02 GMT
Hahaha yeah good point mate. I look forward to the emperors new clothes-ers to put a positive spin on this onez But to be fair I don’t want to be an asshole to fellow Wales fans even though I suspect they would enjoy an opportunity to be an asshole to me. We all want Wales to win and have different ideas show it should be achieved. Tonight I feel was a throwback to the Page years. I’ll take a backs to the wall 0-0 draw as proof that Bellamy can grind a result out. Let’s regroup and see what we get against Iceland How is it emperor's new clothes when we just bettered Page's result out in Turkey, and hit the post and had a disallowed goal along the way? You're forcing a comparison to Page that doesn't hold up I'm afraid With the greatest of respect Page had a somewhat harsh red against him, this curtailing his competitiveness. And it’s somewhat weak to appeal to a “goal” that was clearly not legal. As I intimated earlier, let’s not try and be triumphalist over other posters using bizarre means to do so (clearly offside goals) Let’s accept the laws of the game and come away with a positive result we can build on whatever your thoughts on Bwllamy’s style |
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 20:53:26 GMT
How is it emperor's new clothes when we just bettered Page's result out in Turkey, and hit the post and had a disallowed goal along the way? You're forcing a comparison to Page that doesn't hold up I'm afraid With the greatest of respect Page had a somewhat harsh red against him, this curtailing his competitiveness. And it’s somewhat weak to appeal to a “goal” that was clearly not legal. As I intimated earlier, let’s not try and be triumphalist over other posters using bizarre means to do so (clearly offside goals) Let’s accept the laws of the game and come away with a positive result we can build on whatever your thoughts on Bwllamy’s style. If we are to do that then I don’t see how anyone can come away mad tonight |
|
|
|
Post by dragon64 on Nov 16, 2024 21:04:35 GMT
Good overall away performance against a decent team When you are fielding players like Cullen, Harris and Sheehan then you have clear weaknesses and can't expect to dominate against a good team Big positive was Darlow. Far better stopper one on one with a striker (Ward gets too easily beaten) and far more composed. He is surely the #1 by a good margin now Rodon was pretty outstanding too. JJ was rusty but sometimes he led the way in terms of composure! Hope he gets game time or goes on loan Considering they are Premiership level players - our attacking players such as Wilson, James and especially Brennan and even Brooks were disappointing and should be doing better. Cullen should be nowhere near the squad - what on earth has he done at Swansea or recently for Wales to suggest he can be a game breaker off the bench. Koumas is not kicking doors down but he has better attributes in a forward role than Cullen. Harris is a willing work horse but lacks quality. Sorba lacks a bit of quality but he gives work rate and he helps get us up the pitch. People must be blind if they do not see we are better under Bellamy than Page. We drew with Turkey twice - you do not luck that out and don't forget we scored a disallowed goal and hit the post in the first half - which had an element of bad luck. Page's Wales in Turkey were on the back foot the entire time and look at how open to making substitutes regularly Bellamy is. With Page he would wait ..... and wait .... and wait until we conceded a goal under continued pressure or missed opportunities to change things - witness his employment of subs versus Poland! Lets hope we put Iceland away on Tuesday! sums it up nicely I like that Bellamy is giving the squad game time and making several starting Xl changes in these games so he can see who he can trust and make everyone feel part of the set up He can still continue this with the play off games in March but I hope from there on we see a more settled starting Xl, and we now have our no.1 and back 4 looks good Darlow Connor Rodon Davies Neco Ethan JJ Wilson Brooks ? D James |
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 21:06:15 GMT
So how come we didn’t beat them then? If Bellamy was so forewarned and forearmed how come as quetzal pointed out we were behind in the stats count? Can we agree to can the triumphalism? Quetzal makes a good point that some of the newcomers to this forum have lowered the tone a bit and not for the better so that everyone feels like they have a dog in a race when ultimately we all surely want Wales to win and have different ideas how we get there? Let’s take a step back and chill and accept that Wales won a hard earned point away from home and live to fight another day. Honestly towards the end of the game in the pub I was in it all kicked off when someone chased a lad in and battered him in front of us. It wouldn’t have surprised me if it turned out that it was one one apostle taking offence at another at what Bellamy’s game plan would be. Chill the fuck out. It’s just football 'So how come we didn’t beat them then?' Err, because they have a much better set of players possibly? 'If Bellamy was so forewarned and forearmed how come as quetzal pointed out we were behind in the stats count?' I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here? We had less posession because they were able to get on top thanks to some of the excellent players they have in midfield - Calhanoglu and Guller in particular. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to dominate them and play our own game. We pressed highly at times which worked really well and led to some of our early chances. We played it out a couple of times really well too. Are you suggesting we should have just lumped it long to the likes of Harris every time we received some pressure? As for the rest of your post, people get annoyed by incessantly negative posts, particularly when they're based on a complete misunderstanding of what we're tryiing to do. Like, you colud have avoided making dozens of misinformed posts by spending a few mintes listening to Bellamy explaining his philosophy. Fair play, you’re indefatigable. I assume we both want Wales to do well ultimately so I guess we can just leave it there |
|
|
|
Post by jono on Nov 16, 2024 21:08:20 GMT
Bumbles around the pitch like the big hyena God he thinks he is. You only have to see the reverse angle of Bale's goal against Austria. Stood on the touchline with Levitt and another player. Zero reaction whatsoever from any of them. That'd be enough for me. You're out. I strongly disagree with this. I liked what Brennan Johnson did tonight and think you're going back into the history books to criticise him in a way I don't think is fair. I might just need to give this site a bit of a miss on match days. So many passionate Welsh fans, some with their own pots they want to stir... Every past manager has had a performance to join fans and squad together which boosts performances going forward. This might be it for Bellamy, plenty of hwyl tonight. He's not interested. |
|
|
|
Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 16, 2024 21:10:27 GMT
Here's my take. Great defensive effort. Rodon and Davies were outstanding. Overrun in midfield. We have to improve in that area if we are ever to challenge the top teams. First half,generally, we were really poor. Better in the second half, but still second best. I thought Sorba worked hard. But some of the other forwards were off their game. Harris will never have the consistent quality necessary to make it at this level and I thought it was a poor call to select him. On the other hand, he could easily have had two excellent assists in the first half. That's football for you. On the balance of play, a two or three nil loss would have been fair. Thankfully, Guler and co forgot their shooting boots.
|
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 21:12:31 GMT
Here's my take. Great defensive effort. Rodon and Davies were outstanding. Overrun in midfield. We have to improve in that area if we are ever to challenge the top teams. First half,generally, we were really poor. Better in the second half, but still second best. I thought Sorba worked hard. But some of the other forwards were off their game. Harris will never have the consistent quality necessary to make it at this level and I thought it was a poor call to select him. On the other hand, he could easily have had two excellent assists in the first half. That's football for you. On the balance of play, a two or three nil loss would have been fair. Thankfully, Guler and co forgot their shooting boots. Actually my previous response is probably unfair. Just goes to show how different people can see it if they think Bellamy’s wales deserved a 2 or 3 nil defeat |
|
|
|
Post by jackanapes on Nov 16, 2024 21:21:44 GMT
I’m not convinced our goal was offside. I was under the impression that arms and hands are not considered in offside decisions as they can’t be used to play the ball. Am I going mad or suffering from dementia? I think they gave a convenient decision as the incompetent lino raised the flag too early.
|
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 21:24:02 GMT
'So how come we didn’t beat them then?' Err, because they have a much better set of players possibly? 'If Bellamy was so forewarned and forearmed how come as quetzal pointed out we were behind in the stats count?' I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here? We had less posession because they were able to get on top thanks to some of the excellent players they have in midfield - Calhanoglu and Guller in particular. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to dominate them and play our own game. We pressed highly at times which worked really well and led to some of our early chances. We played it out a couple of times really well too. Are you suggesting we should have just lumped it long to the likes of Harris every time we received some pressure? As for the rest of your post, people get annoyed by incessantly negative posts, particularly when they're based on a complete misunderstanding of what we're tryiing to do. Like, you colud have avoided making dozens of misinformed posts by spending a few mintes listening to Bellamy explaining his philosophy. Fair play, you’re indefatigable. I assume we both want Wales to do well ultimately so I guess we can just leave it there Yeah, those “early chances”. What early chances are those? Looking at the stats is pretty painful reading: Shots on target: 0 Shots off target: 2 Possession: 42% Page would get battered for that, let’s be honest. So, tell me all about those early chances again *plumps up cushions*….. |
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Nov 16, 2024 21:24:27 GMT
Harris will never have the consistent quality necessary to make it at this level and I thought it was a poor call to select him. On the other hand, he could easily have had two excellent assists in the first half.. Are you for real or what? |
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Nov 16, 2024 21:25:24 GMT
I’m not convinced our goal was offside. I was under the impression that arms and hands are not considered in offside decisions as they can’t be used to play the ball. Am I going mad or suffering from dementia? I think they gave a convenient decision as the incompetent lino raised the flag too early. I think they bottled it cause she flagged so damn early for such a tight call. |
|
|
|
Post by welshrover on Nov 16, 2024 21:29:47 GMT
I’m not convinced our goal was offside. I was under the impression that arms and hands are not considered in offside decisions as they can’t be used to play the ball. Am I going mad or suffering from dementia? I think they gave a convenient decision as the incompetent lino raised the flag too early. Funnily enough I was of the same opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by jackanapes on Nov 16, 2024 21:30:01 GMT
Harris will never have the consistent quality necessary to make it at this level and I thought it was a poor call to select him. On the other hand, he could easily have had two excellent assists in the first half.. Are you for real or what? Harris, Cullen, Bradshaw and Broadhead are all limited players. That’s just life. They all do their bit and if Bellamy can get something out of them, then great. But let’s not pretend they are special. We could really do with a couple of young strikers coming through. I suspect that Iwan Morgan would be getting game time at Swansea if he had stayed, and it seems Biancheri is showing promise at MU. We need some magic from somewhere. |
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 21:31:08 GMT
deleted
|
|
|
|
Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 16, 2024 21:32:18 GMT
I’m not convinced our goal was offside. I was under the impression that arms and hands are not considered in offside decisions as they can’t be used to play the ball. Am I going mad or suffering from dementia? I think they gave a convenient decision as the incompetent lino raised the flag too early. I think they bottled it cause she flagged so damn early for such a tight call. They drew the lines and determined it was offside. There's no argument. |
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Nov 16, 2024 21:33:38 GMT
I think they bottled it cause she flagged so damn early for such a tight call. They drew the lines and determined it was offside. There's no argument. B-b-but we won 1-0! |
|
|
|
Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 16, 2024 21:34:13 GMT
Harris will never have the consistent quality necessary to make it at this level and I thought it was a poor call to select him. On the other hand, he could easily have had two excellent assists in the first half.. Are you for real or what? Er, yes I am. |
|
