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Post by jimexotic on Nov 17, 2024 2:23:41 GMT
I thought Rodon, Darlow and Sheehan were brilliant. We were very wasteful with possession at times and often our own worst enemies, I think we can play a lot better than that but it's heartening that we can not be at our best or our strongest and draw away with a Turkey side that didn't exactly have an awful Euros recently.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 17, 2024 8:41:33 GMT
It was a harsh red but we were playing the same way before the red and it didn't change the trajectory of the game really. Page was also lucky in that he had Ampadu and Ramsey to call upon, Bellamy has faced this task needing to play JJ & Sheehan in his midfield. So both had big challenges to overcome in this fixture. Crucially Bellamy got the point and Page didn't, so something in their approaches may well have contributed towards that. You'll call it luck or emperor's clothes, but I felt we tried to do many things differently today that made it more difficult for Turkey, even though they controlled the game better Shots on target: 0 Viva la revolución On average our xG under Bellamy is higher than under Page despite us having less shots and less shots on target on average. Looks like shots on target is a pretty useless statistic! Also we had 1 shot on target in this game, not 0 |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 17, 2024 8:45:17 GMT
On another night he has two assists. Dream assists are my favourite. Did I ever tell you about the time I won the premier league with Rotherham whilst scoring 60 goals? I wasn’t always just a loser posting on apostle after games I’ll have you know….. You say this but on the other hand keep harping on about how Turkey deserved to win. Did they score dream goals that you're counting for some reason? You obviously can't see it, but your analysis of this game is heavily tilted by your bias. Turkey deserved to thrash us despite not scoring according to you, and their pressure and chances missed are proof of that apparently. Yet our chances missed are "dreams/fairytale" because they didn't quite come off. Well...they didn't come off for Turkey either so obviously they didn't deserve to thrash us according to your view if you want to be consistent |
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Post by manulike on Nov 17, 2024 8:54:56 GMT
Shots on target: 0 Viva la revolución On average our xG under Bellamy is higher than under Page despite us having less shots and less shots on target on average. Looks like shots on target is a pretty useless statistic! Also we had 1 shot on target in this game, not 0 Certainly remember Wilson, half-way in 2nd from inside the area. Also, from where I sat, almost all our shots "off" target, were a hellovalot closer than theirs :+)) Looking forward to the WC draw in December! |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 17, 2024 9:04:17 GMT
Player ratings:
Darlow (7) - great save for the one on one. I found him quite assuring overall and made a few good decisions about when to come and punch the ball. Other than the one-on-one he wasn't really tested. Needs to improve his long balls though, too many didn't hit the mark and invited pressure
Neco (6) - mixed performance for me. On the one hand I felt he wasn't tight enough to Guler in the first half especially, and it was allowing Turkey to switch the ball with minimal pressure. Perhaps that was tactical instruction, but it was tough for him defensively and he didn't do badly just always felt their threat was larger from his side of the pitch. On the ball he was enjoyable to watch, a few signature turns to take the pressure off and I really like him in that position. I just think his end ball was a bit disappointing after some nice turns, so definitely room for improvement there
Rodon & Davies (9) - I think both were our best two players on the night. Neither of them really made a mistake of note, and had plenty of work. Aside from the one-on-one we were never really opened up by Turkey which is a testament to the CBs. Davies was my MOTM
Connor (7) - seemed a bit more defensively assured than Neco and less came down his side of the pitch. Perhaps that's due to Turkey's strengths but I thought he did a decent job overall. Again distribution could have been better but it was a tough game
Sheehan (5) - Might look like I'm scoring him down, but I actually think it's impressive for him to put in a 5 in context given he's a League One player and Turkey is such a difficult place to go. Too wayward with too many passes and him and JJ were up against it with their midfield who had control. However defensively he filled the spaces pretty well and we never looked wide open in the middle which is credit to him. Not great but not terrible
JJ (5) - Same as above, not great but not terrible. Difficult night for him and his touch/passing was too wayward at times for me. However, he's a young man who can take confidence from sticking at it in a tough away game like that. Will be all the better for the experience
Wilson (4) - Thought this was his worst game for a while. His only positive contribution was hitting the post. Other than that I thought he wasted a few opportunities being through on goal. He also put us in danger by turning into trouble in the middle of the park on multiple occasions. He's been so good for us recently so I can't be too harsh based on one bad performance but I felt he was really poor by his usual standards
Brennan (4) - As above. Needs to be more of a leader in games like that given the level he plays at for his club. Just feel as though he does too many naive things still, where he should look more comfortable in a game like last night. I think some criticism of him is over the top though. He's clearly still finding his feet in international football and I think before long it will all come together for him. But we do need to see more from him on nights like last night if we want to qualify for the World Cup
Sorba (5) - Similar to Wilson & Brennan. Frustratingly not holding onto the ball, and he missed a few key passes when he had made a good run with the ball. Felt he got us up the pitch more than Wilson & Brennan did and for that I've scored him higher. But still was part of the problem of not keeping the ball well enough under pressure. In fairness, I thought DJ would come on and outperform him but he didn't really so that gives more credit to what Sorba did. Also felt Sorba's defensive effort was exceptional so I have to give him credit for that too
Harris (5) - Similarly didn't hold up the ball well enough, but part of why I have rated him higher is that he's not as good a player as Wilson/Brennan so I expect less from him. And actually he made a great run for the disallowed goal, and held the ball really well when Wilson hit the post. So he made some good contributions that ultimately came to nothing. Still we needed more up front than he offered us
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Post by surge on Nov 17, 2024 9:13:04 GMT
I think it's best if we imagine this as Bellamy's pre-season/first month in charge. And that football philosophy is about what you intend to do so sometimes the opposition will be successful in forcing you to do something different for at least part of the game.
Despite this, there are different pros/cons to each style of play and the best teams will be able to do a bit both so can adapt when time calls.
Bellamy happy with our defensive rear action but wanting more going forward and more control. I think that's fair.
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Post by hooky on Nov 17, 2024 9:15:56 GMT
I thought Rodon, Darlow and Sheehan were brilliant. We were very wasteful with possession at times and often our own worst enemies, I think we can play a lot better than that but it's heartening that we can not be at our best or our strongest and draw away with a Turkey side that didn't exactly have an awful Euros recently. I do not think Sheehan was brilliant - they bypassed our midfield easily at times and he lost the ball on a couple of occasions, one of which almost cost us a goal He was not poor but he was not great - he just gave 100% which is all you can ask of anyone |
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Post by hooky on Nov 17, 2024 9:19:07 GMT
Dream assists are my favourite. Did I ever tell you about the time I won the premier league with Rotherham whilst scoring 60 goals? I wasn’t always just a loser posting on apostle after games I’ll have you know….. You say this but on the other hand keep harping on about how Turkey deserved to win. Did they score dream goals that you're counting for some reason? You obviously can't see it, but your analysis of this game is heavily tilted by your bias. Turkey deserved to thrash us despite not scoring according to you, and their pressure and chances missed are proof of that apparently. Yet our chances missed are "dreams/fairytale" because they didn't quite come off. Well...they didn't come off for Turkey either so obviously they didn't deserve to thrash us according to your view if you want to be consistent Turkey are pretty toothless in attack and that is why they are nowhere near to being elite. Now a team like Germany or France could thrash us but lets be honest about Turkey - you would not put your mortgage on them scoring a chance with a decent opportunity. We could have thrashed then 2-0 but for a slight offside or a lick of paint. That was a competitive game - lets be honest! |
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Post by hooky on Nov 17, 2024 9:26:11 GMT
Player ratings: Darlow (7) - great save for the one on one. I found him quite assuring overall and made a few good decisions about when to come and punch the ball. Other than the one-on-one he wasn't really tested. Needs to improve his long balls though, too many didn't hit the mark and invited pressure Neco (6) - mixed performance for me. On the one hand I felt he wasn't tight enough to Guler in the first half especially, and it was allowing Turkey to switch the ball with minimal pressure. Perhaps that was tactical instruction, but it was tough for him defensively and he didn't do badly just always felt their threat was larger from his side of the pitch. On the ball he was enjoyable to watch, a few signature turns to take the pressure off and I really like him in that position. I just think his end ball was a bit disappointing after some nice turns, so definitely room for improvement there Rodon & Davies (9) - I think both were our best two players on the night. Neither of them really made a mistake of note, and had plenty of work. Aside from the one-on-one we were never really opened up by Turkey which is a testament to the CBs. Davies was my MOTM Connor (7) - seemed a bit more defensively assured than Neco and less came down his side of the pitch. Perhaps that's due to Turkey's strengths but I thought he did a decent job overall. Again distribution could have been better but it was a tough game Sheehan (5) - Might look like I'm scoring him down, but I actually think it's impressive for him to put in a 5 in context given he's a League One player and Turkey is such a difficult place to go. Too wayward with too many passes and him and JJ were up against it with their midfield who had control. However defensively he filled the spaces pretty well and we never looked wide open in the middle which is credit to him. Not great but not terrible JJ (5) - Same as above, not great but not terrible. Difficult night for him and his touch/passing was too wayward at times for me. However, he's a young man who can take confidence from sticking at it in a tough away game like that. Will be all the better for the experience Wilson (4) - Thought this was his worst game for a while. His only positive contribution was hitting the post. Other than that I thought he wasted a few opportunities being through on goal. He also put us in danger by turning into trouble in the middle of the park on multiple occasions. He's been so good for us recently so I can't be too harsh based on one bad performance but I felt he was really poor by his usual standards Brennan (4) - As above. Needs to be more of a leader in games like that given the level he plays at for his club. Just feel as though he does too many naive things still, where he should look more comfortable in a game like last night. I think some criticism of him is over the top though. He's clearly still finding his feet in international football and I think before long it will all come together for him. But we do need to see more from him on nights like last night if we want to qualify for the World Cup Sorba (5) - Similar to Wilson & Brennan. Frustratingly not holding onto the ball, and he missed a few key passes when he had made a good run with the ball. Felt he got us up the pitch more than Wilson & Brennan did and for that I've scored him higher. But still was part of the problem of not keeping the ball well enough under pressure. In fairness, I thought DJ would come on and outperform him but he didn't really so that gives more credit to what Sorba did. Also felt Sorba's defensive effort was exceptional so I have to give him credit for that too Harris (5) - Similarly didn't hold up the ball well enough, but part of why I have rated him higher is that he's not as good a player as Wilson/Brennan so I expect less from him. And actually he made a great run for the disallowed goal, and held the ball really well when Wilson hit the post. So he made some good contributions that ultimately came to nothing. Still we needed more up front than he offered us Agree totally with your points on Sorba but he was definitely a 6 - definitely better than a Sheehan or Harris in terms of his consistent contribution is releasing pressure, his work rate and getting us up the pitch. Tribute to Bellamy that he sees those important qualities in him and picks him. His poor choice for that great break when he released too late was surprising - he is better than that and I am sure he will be nailing those things once he gets more international experiance |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 17, 2024 9:29:57 GMT
I think it's best if we imagine this as Bellamy's pre-season/first month in charge. And that football philosophy is about what you intend to do so sometimes the opposition will be successful in forcing you to do something different for at least part of the game. Despite this, there are different pros/cons to each style of play and the best teams will be able to do a bit both so can adapt when time calls. Bellamy happy with our defensive rear action but wanting more going forward and more control. I think that's fair. Exactly, 100% agree |
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Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 17, 2024 9:56:59 GMT
Player ratings: Darlow (7) - great save for the one on one. I found him quite assuring overall and made a few good decisions about when to come and punch the ball. Other than the one-on-one he wasn't really tested. Needs to improve his long balls though, too many didn't hit the mark and invited pressure Neco (6) - mixed performance for me. On the one hand I felt he wasn't tight enough to Guler in the first half especially, and it was allowing Turkey to switch the ball with minimal pressure. Perhaps that was tactical instruction, but it was tough for him defensively and he didn't do badly just always felt their threat was larger from his side of the pitch. On the ball he was enjoyable to watch, a few signature turns to take the pressure off and I really like him in that position. I just think his end ball was a bit disappointing after some nice turns, so definitely room for improvement there Rodon & Davies (9) - I think both were our best two players on the night. Neither of them really made a mistake of note, and had plenty of work. Aside from the one-on-one we were never really opened up by Turkey which is a testament to the CBs. Davies was my MOTM Connor (7) - seemed a bit more defensively assured than Neco and less came down his side of the pitch. Perhaps that's due to Turkey's strengths but I thought he did a decent job overall. Again distribution could have been better but it was a tough game Sheehan (5) - Might look like I'm scoring him down, but I actually think it's impressive for him to put in a 5 in context given he's a League One player and Turkey is such a difficult place to go. Too wayward with too many passes and him and JJ were up against it with their midfield who had control. However defensively he filled the spaces pretty well and we never looked wide open in the middle which is credit to him. Not great but not terrible JJ (5) - Same as above, not great but not terrible. Difficult night for him and his touch/passing was too wayward at times for me. However, he's a young man who can take confidence from sticking at it in a tough away game like that. Will be all the better for the experience Wilson (4) - Thought this was his worst game for a while. His only positive contribution was hitting the post. Other than that I thought he wasted a few opportunities being through on goal. He also put us in danger by turning into trouble in the middle of the park on multiple occasions. He's been so good for us recently so I can't be too harsh based on one bad performance but I felt he was really poor by his usual standards Brennan (4) - As above. Needs to be more of a leader in games like that given the level he plays at for his club. Just feel as though he does too many naive things still, where he should look more comfortable in a game like last night. I think some criticism of him is over the top though. He's clearly still finding his feet in international football and I think before long it will all come together for him. But we do need to see more from him on nights like last night if we want to qualify for the World Cup Sorba (5) - Similar to Wilson & Brennan. Frustratingly not holding onto the ball, and he missed a few key passes when he had made a good run with the ball. Felt he got us up the pitch more than Wilson & Brennan did and for that I've scored him higher. But still was part of the problem of not keeping the ball well enough under pressure. In fairness, I thought DJ would come on and outperform him but he didn't really so that gives more credit to what Sorba did. Also felt Sorba's defensive effort was exceptional so I have to give him credit for that too Harris (5) - Similarly didn't hold up the ball well enough, but part of why I have rated him higher is that he's not as good a player as Wilson/Brennan so I expect less from him. And actually he made a great run for the disallowed goal, and held the ball really well when Wilson hit the post. So he made some good contributions that ultimately came to nothing. Still we needed more up front than he offered us Agree totally with your points on Sorba but he was definitely a 6 - definitely better than a Sheehan or Harris in terms of his consistent contribution is releasing pressure, his work rate and getting us up the pitch. Tribute to Bellamy that he sees those important qualities in him and picks him. His poor choice for that great break when he released too late was surprising - he is better than that and I am sure he will be nailing those things once he gets more international experiance I think a '5' for Sorba is a bit harsh too. He relieved a lot of pressure with his direct running and though he lost the ball too frequently, he tended to do so much further up the pitch than when he'd received it. Nobody else was doing that - aside from Neco, who played at least as well as Roberts. He deserves a 7 in my opinion. Otherwise, I think the marks are pretty fair. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 17, 2024 10:14:41 GMT
One of the main takeaways from last night for me is that without Ampadu it's going to be hard to go away and control/dominate a game against a calibre of opposition like Turkey. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try and play when we have the opportunity (as we did last night) as it certainly relieves some pressure
However, Ampadu is key in our ability to control the midfield
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Post by melynwy on Nov 17, 2024 10:20:17 GMT
…a lot of the people who are vocal against “progressive” or “modern” tactics don’t really understand the principles and why it’s being done Just to be clear, I don’t mean this in a “you don’t understand football” way- just that a lot of people don’t appreciate why some coaches play that way and the benefits it can bring, much in the same way as other people (me included) don’t really understand other systems (not that I can truly claim to understand any system!) It boils down to the philosophy that you can’t score without the ball, so you keep it until you create a very good chance. Long range passes and long range shots run a much higher chance of giving the ball to the other team than creating a goal, so it’s discouraged. I think it potentially suits our players, but that’s not to say it should be the only option. |
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Post by dai on Nov 17, 2024 10:29:00 GMT
Agree totally with your points on Sorba but he was definitely a 6 - definitely better than a Sheehan or Harris in terms of his consistent contribution is releasing pressure, his work rate and getting us up the pitch. Tribute to Bellamy that he sees those important qualities in him and picks him. His poor choice for that great break when he released too late was surprising - he is better than that and I am sure he will be nailing those things once he gets more international experiance I think a '5' for Sorba is a bit harsh too. He relieved a lot of pressure with his direct running and though he lost the ball too frequently, he tended to do so much further up the pitch than when he'd received it. Nobody else was doing that - aside from Neco, who played at least as well as Roberts. He deserves a 7 in my opinion. Otherwise, I think the marks are pretty fair. I have to disagree with you both. Sorba lost the ball countless times in the first half which allowed Turkey to get the ball back upfield, and lost it when we were in good positions. 5 is more than fair imo. |
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Post by rushy on Nov 17, 2024 10:57:06 GMT
Wow, people explaining how the game is played pfft !!
I'll tell you what I saw, a team completely overrun by their opponents who failed to finish their obvious chances.
The new fangled style of play was non existent except occasionaly in defence which Turkey never gave us the opportunity to get into any rhythm throughout the match, something which should give Bellamy something to think about for the future but won't.
The fact is we 'escaped' with a draw, but defensively there were mostly excellent performances, the main problem is in creating chances and that's usually down to the build up and final ball, we get in good situations but are so wasteful, and that is probably down to the quality of the players imo.
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Post by melynwy on Nov 17, 2024 11:12:54 GMT
Wow, people explaining how the game is played pfft !! No. Bellamy did seem to adapt as the game went on. We didn’t play badly - we were in the game, kept it fairly tight and could have snatched a winner. That’s a pretty good/expected place to be for Wales away v Turkey. We didn’t create a whole lot of chances yesterday, but we did at home and in the other games. It feels to me we’re creating more chances under Bellamy than under Page, and not conceding more. That’s all you can ask for from a manager/tactics- the rest comes down to converting those chances, which has nothing to with systems and tactics. |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Nov 17, 2024 11:21:33 GMT
We didn't have Kieffer as an outlet to the pressure last night. Wilson poor for the first time in a while, Brennan, did a few things defensively but little else and another stupid booking to boot. He needs to grow up a bit with less petulance, still learning the International game very slowly I guess. Defensively we were heroic, agree with all the above defender ratings.
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Post by hooky on Nov 17, 2024 11:25:32 GMT
I think a '5' for Sorba is a bit harsh too. He relieved a lot of pressure with his direct running and though he lost the ball too frequently, he tended to do so much further up the pitch than when he'd received it. Nobody else was doing that - aside from Neco, who played at least as well as Roberts. He deserves a 7 in my opinion. Otherwise, I think the marks are pretty fair. I have to disagree with you both. Sorba lost the ball countless times in the first half which allowed Turkey to get the ball back upfield, and lost it when we were in good positions. 5 is more than fair imo. I said nothing about immaculate ball retention! My main point was he was an outlet that drove us up field, had a high work ethic defensively and dragged us up the field. Without that we could have been pinned back far more He is still a bit raw and his retention was a little poor but he is better than that - he will make that earlier pass next time (which would have slid a player in for a one on one with the keeper) as we have seen him do it at club level consistently, while his crossing is far better than we have seen (albeit we had no targets in the box) The guy entered professional football late so I think he definitely has a higher ceiling to reach in the next couple of years and can be a useful squad player at the very least who we can trust to bring on. |
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Post by hooky on Nov 17, 2024 11:30:52 GMT
Wow, people explaining how the game is played pfft !! I'll tell you what I saw, a team completely overrun by their opponents who failed to finish their obvious chances. The new fangled style of play was non existent except occasionaly in defence which Turkey never gave us the opportunity to get into any rhythm throughout the match, something which should give Bellamy something to think about for the future but won't. The fact is we 'escaped' with a draw, but defensively there were mostly excellent performances, the main problem is in creating chances and that's usually down to the build up and final ball, we get in good situations but are so wasteful, and that is probably down to the quality of the players imo. Completely over run? Utter nonsense - if we were we would have lost at least 2-0 like we did under Page two years ago. We had outlets, which we used, and we had chances / half chances, which was not the case in that other fixture. Turkey were a bit toothless in attack against us two years ago too and even missed a penalty then but we were just offering them shooting practice in that fixture and weren't that passive this time. Just reminded me that Turkey have got 3 penalties from us in 3 of their 4 last fixture - all of which I believe were marginal (and that one at home a complete joke). You could see the way they conducted themselves that its a tactic - a couple of times they threw themselves to the floor inside and around the penalty area but did not play act or appeal when it was clear no one was near them. Absolutely disgusting approach from them |
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Post by hooky on Nov 17, 2024 11:36:46 GMT
Wow, people explaining how the game is played pfft !! No. Bellamy did seem to adapt as the game went on. We didn’t play badly - we were in the game, kept it fairly tight and could have snatched a winner. That’s a pretty good/expected place to be for Wales away v Turkey. We didn’t create a whole lot of chances yesterday, but we did at home and in the other games. It feels to me we’re creating more chances under Bellamy than under Page, and not conceding more. That’s all you can ask for from a manager/tactics- the rest comes down to converting those chances, which has nothing to with systems and tactics. A keeper who is a substitute at club level One of only two central defenders who is only a fill in centre half A full back who is not playing for his club and along with the other full back is not the best defensive An 18/19 year old central midfielders who is not playing for club at the moment and a journeyman central midfielder who plays in our third division No target man to hit balls up to and a lack of cutting edge (that is down to them) from 3 or so Premier League standard players who should be doing better in possession in threatening positions Despite that we hit the post, have a goal disallowed and should have had a 1 on 1 with the keeper if Sorba had played the ball earlier, while limiting them to only one or two great chances in a hostile, away environment where I believe we have never taken anything in the last 3 decades? Why on earth to people think we should be dominating them away from home - they are in la la land! |
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Post by dai on Nov 17, 2024 11:39:54 GMT
I have to disagree with you both. Sorba lost the ball countless times in the first half which allowed Turkey to get the ball back upfield, and lost it when we were in good positions. 5 is more than fair imo. My main point was he was an outlet that drove us up field, had a high work ethic defensively and dragged us up the field. Without that we could have been pinned back far more He is still a bit raw and his retention was a little poor but he is better than that - he will make that earlier pass next time (which would have slid a player in for a one on one with the keeper) as we have seen him do it at club level consistently, while his crossing is far better than we have seen (albeit we had no targets in the box) The guy entered professional football late so I think he definitely has a higher ceiling to reach in the next couple of years and can be a useful squad player at the very least who we can trust to bring on. You don't need have 'immaculate ball retention' to avoid losing the ball so much. He was more than a 'little poor', his decision making and reluctance to look up around him was something you'd see in the lower leagues, not at international level. He had a good game against Turkey at home, but was very poor last night. |
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Post by hooky on Nov 17, 2024 11:48:02 GMT
I said nothing about immaculate ball retention! My main point was he was an outlet that drove us up field, had a high work ethic defensively and dragged us up the field. Without that we could have been pinned back far more He is still a bit raw and his retention was a little poor but he is better than that - he will make that earlier pass next time (which would have slid a player in for a one on one with the keeper) as we have seen him do it at club level consistently, while his crossing is far better than we have seen (albeit we had no targets in the box) The guy entered professional football late so I think he definitely has a higher ceiling to reach in the next couple of years and can be a useful squad player at the very least who we can trust to bring on. You don't need have 'immaculate ball retention' to avoid losing the ball so much. He was more than a 'little poor', his decision making and reluctance to look up around him was something you'd see in the lower leagues, not at international level. He had a good game against Turkey at home, but was very poor last night. I mentioned the ball retention in an early post but the point is he did those other things far better than the other attaching players who were more ineffectual for the most part. I also made the point that he is still raw but that lack of composure was still below what I had seen from him at club level - he actually just needs to relax and play his club style a bit more - as you will know that one on one opportunity he probably had one or two seconds to play that early ball but did not release the ball (not sure if he saw it or now - I presume not). That is not something I saw from him playing for Huddersfield (on the occasions I watched him) and he can work on and improve on that. If its the same story after another 10 caps then it is definitely a concern but he made that opportunity himself by driving forward. The other forwards could learn from him in respect to that part of the game and his defensive side of the game - which has a lot to do with the lad's stronger work ethic, which is actually an invaluable commodity for a team like Wales! |
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Post by barneycat1 on Nov 17, 2024 12:00:31 GMT
There are around 85 million people in Turkey, 5 million Turks in Germany, and about another 15 million spread around other countries.
Their most popular sport is Football.
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Post by jackanapes on Nov 17, 2024 13:45:14 GMT
Wow, people explaining how the game is played pfft !! I'll tell you what I saw, a team completely overrun by their opponents who failed to finish their obvious chances. The new fangled style of play was non existent except occasionaly in defence which Turkey never gave us the opportunity to get into any rhythm throughout the match, something which should give Bellamy something to think about for the future but won't. The fact is we 'escaped' with a draw, but defensively there were mostly excellent performances, the main problem is in creating chances and that's usually down to the build up and final ball, we get in good situations but are so wasteful, and that is probably down to the quality of the players imo. Completely over run? Utter nonsense - if we were we would have lost at least 2-0 like we did under Page two years ago. We had outlets, which we used, and we had chances / half chances, which was not the case in that other fixture. Turkey were a bit toothless in attack against us two years ago too and even missed a penalty then but we were just offering them shooting practice in that fixture and weren't that passive this time. Just reminded me that Turkey have got 3 penalties from us in 3 of their 4 last fixture - all of which I believe were marginal (and that one at home a complete joke). You could see the way they conducted themselves that its a tactic - a couple of times they threw themselves to the floor inside and around the penalty area but did not play act or appeal when it was clear no one was near them. Absolutely disgusting approach from them It’s also worth remembering that in our last three games against Turkey we’ve had 3 goals disallowed for marginal offsides, while we didn’t get several penalty decisions which were much stronger than the ones they were awarded. I’m not plugging conspiracy here, just observing that we’ve been close to very good results on three occasions and the deciding factor has been the decisions of officials (right or wrong). |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 17, 2024 14:08:24 GMT
We actually had more of a penalty shout than them last night as well, when Wilson ran through on goal and their CB shoved him in the back with his shoulder to nudge him out of the way of the keeper. No attempt for the ball, took the man. Don't get me wrong it was soft, but it was more of a penalty than what they were given
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Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 17, 2024 14:11:38 GMT
Having watched the match back it was very much the mirror image of the game in Cardiff. Turkiye played with intensity out of possession, and excellent tempo and passing up to the final third, but were let down by their finishing. We really struggled to maintain possession for any length of time, often coughing up possession from our own throw ins, or over-ambitious passes. Even so, we did squander a few good attacking opportunities, not least one just after Brooks came on when a low cross from Wilson found its way to Brooks, who thought the defender was going to cut it out, and messed up a gilt edged opportunity that wasn't revisited after the event.
The more I see the penalty incident the clearer it is that Neco didn't get near the ball. It looks that way because the ball moves in the direction you would expect it to had he made contact, but the contact came from Akgun, who was Turkiye's best player on the night.
Tactically I think we were OK, we were just let down by too many below par performances from all of our forwards, and we were up against a highly motivated Turkiye side with a formidable home record (two defeats at home in 30 competitive matches).
Over the two games against Turkiye I think we shaded things, which is quite an achievement given that the Turks have a lot of quality and promising young players in their ranks.
The game against Iceland will be a good gauge of our progress under Bellamy. He's currently being cut a lot of slak - rightly. That could change if we don't dominate against a decent but limited Iceland for the majority of the game.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 17, 2024 14:15:18 GMT
We actually had more of a penalty shout than them last night as well, when Wilson ran through on goal and their CB shoved him in the back with his shoulder to nudge him out of the way of the keeper. No attempt for the ball, took the man. Don't get me wrong it was soft, but it was more of a penalty than what they were given I'd like to believe you but their penalty shout was clearcut. If you watch it back on iPlayer at quarter speed you can see that Akgun cushions the ball and Neco doesn't get anything on the ball. The angle from behind the ref shows it more clearly - Neco doesn't get near the ball and the ref is perfectly positioned to see it. As for the Wilson shout - Wilson wasn't getting anywhere near the ball, so that will have played a big part in the referee's mind. Not a penalty in my mind. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 17, 2024 14:20:42 GMT
Not that I put much stock into things like football manager and player ratings on games. But to compare our team vs their team in terms of fifa ratings:
TURKEY
Gunok (77)
Muldur (74)
Demiral (76)
Bardakci (79)
Elmali (71)
Akgun (72)
Kokcu (81)
Calhanoglu (86)
Yilmaz (80)
Guler (78)
Akturkoglu (77)
AVG = 77
WALES
Darlow (72)
Connor (73)
Rodon (75)
Davies (76)
Neco (76)
Sheehan (68)
JJ (68)
Wilson (75)
Brennan (78)
Harris (67)
Sorba (71)
AVG = 72
Just goes to show that the lineup we went there with is considered far inferior to theirs by the outside world, so on paper a point is definitely a good result
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Post by rushy on Nov 17, 2024 14:33:16 GMT
0 - 0
HT
(0 - 0)
Data
Turkey
Wales
Possession
63%
37%
Shots
36
6
Shots On Target
4
2
Shots Off Target
12
2
Shots Blocked
10
1
Cards
1
2
Corners
9
2
Fouls
13
10
Offsides
1
2
xG
1.76
0.58
Pretty self explanatory.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 17, 2024 15:17:24 GMT
Home game: Cymru 2.49 Twrci 0.79 xG
Possession: 67% 33%
Shots (on target): 15 (1) 5 (1)
Big chances: 4 0
Away: Twrci 3.02 Cymru 0.24
Possession: 63% 37%
Shots: 25 (3) 4 (1)
Big chances: 3 0
Pretty much a mirror image, although I think our big chances were better opportunities than theirs yesterday. Also xG doesn't capture dangerous attacking opportunities that didn't result in a shot, such as the far post chance that Brooks failed to complete.
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