Sam Vokes

[cymru888]

Probably fairer to judge his goalscoring record on minutes played rather than appearances. I’d estimate well over half his appearances have been sub appearances often with only minutes left to play. If he starts he tends to get subbed off. Still wouldnt be an outstanding record but probably on a par with likes of Mark Hughes and Dean Saunders.

[CrackityJones]

Vokes on the score sheet. Bloody needed a goal.

[johnoster]

Screamer from 3 yards.

Then he missed a penalty in the shootout. Only one who missed.

[georgetm1]

I remember him screwing up that penalty against Panama. Let's face it, he isn't very good at striking the ball.

[dai]

After the Bradshaw vs Vokes debate on the Azerbaijan thread I thought I'd delve into the stoke forums and twitter to see what he's really like for them - bad idea.

I know I've seen a few bad comments, but the overall consensus about him is pretty abysmal. More talk of poor movement, no effort, lack of pace and the worst - being overweight. He's always been a big lad, but even I've noticed him becoming bulkier over the past few years. He's meant to be a professional footballer.....

It's not nice to read, but he's been slaughtered after their loss to WBA, while ironic that retired HRK played quite well and scored a goal.

He's actually only scored 3 goals for Stoke since joining in January, while Bradshaw has score more this season alone (so far).

I'm not sure if he's really deserving of a squad place going forward if I'll be honest.

[insertname]

Nov 7, 2019 11:30:18 GMT dai said:

After the Bradshaw vs Vokes debate on the Azerbaijan thread I thought I'd delve into the stoke forums and twitter to see what he's really like for them - bad idea.

I know I've seen a few bad comments, but the overall consensus about him is pretty abysmal. More talk of poor movement, no effort, lack of pace and the worst - being overweight. He's always been a big lad, but even I've noticed him becoming bulkier over the past few years. He's meant to be a professional footballer.....

It's not nice to read, but he's been slaughtered after their loss to WBA, while ironic that retired HRK played quite well and scored a goal.

He's actually only scored 3 goals for Stoke since joining in January, while Bradshaw has score more this season alone (so far).

I'm not sure if he's really deserving of a squad place going forward if I'll be honest.

Heresy!

In all seriousness this was as predictable as night following day. He was never a good footballer in the first place and as much as people might defend him on here he only won the caps that he did because the cupboard was bare and he was able to stay fit (whilst our better players, annoyingly, generally aren't), he was never going to display some Ronaldo like feat of getting better with age. He's on the downward spiral, playing for a rubbish team, scoring the odd goal in the cup etc. etc.

When you think about it you have to take your hat off to the bloke because, despite all of the above he has still found his way into another squad despite others scoring more regularly at the same level for a better team. Remarkable.

Edit: Actually, to be fair, as much as I think the caps he has amassed has been one of the negatives of the recent decent period when we qualified under Coleman and he didn't experiment much with alternatives it has to be said that for a small time he was scoring goals semi-regularly for Burnley which does perhaps suggest that at one point he could have been a more important player at international level. We had a very rigid and well drilled way of playing under Coleman and maybe there is an argument there that we could have seen a better player at international level if we had looked at the way Burnley were set up for him to score goals for them because let's be honest he's not often looked like scoring in a Welsh shirt, missed penalties etc and I wouldn't have put money on him scoring the chance that Moore put away vs Slovakia. We would have been mad to change a winning formula to get more out of Vokes though, let's be honest.

[iot]

Bradshaw v vokes is a tough call for me.

Most fans would agree that the biggest disappointment of Giggs' era to date has been a lack of cohesion and clear game plan in most of the games (I don't count the last double header as part of that). Coleman gets blasted for being too conservative and perhaps there's something in that (although it says a lot that the only gripe people had with him at that pre-ampadu/wilson/brooks/james time was the lack of opportunities to a high-flying league 1 / struggling championship striker). But there was a clear style of play, everyone knew they're roles and there was good team chemistry.

So what accounts for the lack of cohesion during giggs' reign? I would argue it's largely to do with the constant chopping and changing of personnel and formations. We finally landed on a decent setup in the last fixtures which relied heavily on having a big target man. We have two players who can play that role, so it makes sense to include them both in the squad rather than bringing in yet another completely different type of player requiring a completely different gameplan should he be introduced (something that's probably difficult to prepare for given that they will only have a couple of days). That being said, I am torn because although Vokes is a CF, I think he's a really poor one. He loses the vast majority of those aerial duels with defenders, has a very mediocre strike rate, and doesn't offer anything else.

It should be noted that bradshaw has only scored 7 in 16 games this season (none in the last 2), having scored none in 10 last campaign (although he was recovering from a serious injury tbf). So it's hardly the clear-cut choice some are making out.

[dai]

Nov 7, 2019 12:40:41 GMT iot said:

Bradshaw v vokes is a tough call for me.

Most fans would agree that the biggest disappointment of Giggs' era to date has been a lack of cohesion and clear game plan in most of the games (I don't count the last double header as part of that). Coleman gets blasted for being too conservative and perhaps there's something in that (although it says a lot that the only gripe people had with him at that pre-ampadu/wilson/brooks/james time was the lack of opportunities to a high-flying league 1 / struggling championship striker). But there was a clear style of play, everyone knew they're roles and there was good team chemistry.

So what accounts for the lack of cohesion during giggs' reign? I would argue it's largely to do with the constant chopping and changing of personnel and formations. We finally landed on a decent setup in the last fixtures which relied heavily on having a big target man. We have two players who can play that role, so it makes sense to include them both in the squad rather than bringing in yet another completely different type of player requiring a completely different gameplan should he be introduced (something that's probably difficult to prepare for given that they will only have a couple of days). That being said, I am torn because although Vokes is a CF, I think he's a really poor one. He loses the vast majority of those aerial duels with defenders, has a very mediocre strike rate, and doesn't offer anything else.

It should be noted that bradshaw has only scored 7 in 16 games this season (none in the last 2), having scored none in 10 last campaign (although he was recovering from a serious injury tbf). So it's hardly the clear-cut choice some are making out.

That's probably more than all of our strikers combined though! (I think that's correct)

I agree regarding the whole Giggs chopping and changing compared to Coleman's player loyalty. Polar opposites of each other, and yes we have slagged off Giggs for his changes as much as we slagged off Coleman for his conservativeness.  There were positives  to Coleman's gameplan that we probably didn't acknowledge. 

I disagree with your middle paragraph regarding two players who can play the same role, Moore is a completely different player to Vokes in terms of speed, movement and aerial ability, and is able to fulfil a much more expansive role. It's not a like for like in my eyes. 

[allezlesrouges]

It's hard to debate Vokes vs Bradshaw because they are so different. We couldn't play the same system with Bradshaw on the pitch so we can't only have Bradshaw and Moore in the squad. I think the sensible solution is to have all 3 because then you have a "like for like" backup for Moore, and then the option of a poacher off the bench when needed.

I suspect Giggs feels he can use Tyler Roberts in Bradshaw's role though. I'd really like to see Bradshaw included for some friendlies though if he keeps up his form.

[CrackityJones]

Vokes starts and scores!

[welshiron]

Bradshaw 7 goals

Vokes 5 goals

Not a big difference this season

[CrackityJones]

GÔÔÔÔL VOKES!

[cadno]

Gôôôôôôl! (eto)

[CrackityJones]

Some game time and a goal for big Sam yesterday

[welshiron]

Anyone honestly think Bradshaw is a better option.


Dont cross it Chris

[welwyn]

Mar 1, 2020 7:07:39 GMT CrackityJones said:

Some game time and a goal for big Sam yesterday

Got me really angry that he won so much in the air against us when I am used to the exact opposite for Wales. As for the goal, Joe did all the 'hard' work for the goal (trust me, it wasn't that hard!)

Really didn't impress when looking at it from a Wales perspective through, needs to work defenders much harder laterally as opposed to just vertically. That's what Mawr & HRK do.

[cadno]

Mar 1, 2020 15:46:20 GMT welshiron said:

Anyone honestly think Bradshaw is a better option.


Dont cross it Chris

No, not better, but different...

Matondo currently playing well on the wing vs Bayern Munich, don't think he goes to the euros, but he could be useful if we're sitting a bit deeper and playing a counter attacking game!

[allezlesrouges]

Gôl Vokes! 

[conwy10]

Saw he scored but before it’s suggested... no... just no... he shouldn’t be starting. Should be celebrating every call up at this point.

[CrackityJones]

Vokes scores in the cup. As you were. 

[dai]

Vokes with his annual quarterly goal.

[melynwy]

Oct 1, 2020 18:49:45 GMT dai said:

annual quarterly

Huh?!?

🤯

Is that one or four goals every year?!

[dai]

Oct 1, 2020 19:00:51 GMT melynwy said:

Oct 1, 2020 18:49:45 GMT dai said:

annual quarterly

Huh?!?

🤯

Is that one or four goals every year?!

My English isn't very good! 4 goals a year!

[cadno]

Michael O'Neill likes him! He's been unlucky to miss out on our squad

[CrackityJones]

Through to the quarters. Da iawn Sam.

[cadno]

Bring him back

[fiveattheback]

Taking quite the kicking on Stoke's forum

oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/297656/stoke-city-cardiff?page=30

[insertname]

Dec 8, 2020 23:55:34 GMT fiveattheback said:

Taking quite the kicking on Stoke's forum

oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/297656/stoke-city-cardiff?page=30

Taken three penalties this season (including tonight) and missed them all! So he had some neck wanting to take the one tonight so I can see why they are pissed off! He’s got an awful penalty record for Wales too hasn’t he?

[dlwilliams]

Dec 9, 2020 0:09:24 GMT insertname said:

Dec 8, 2020 23:55:34 GMT fiveattheback said:

Taking quite the kicking on Stoke's forum

oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/297656/stoke-city-cardiff?page=30

Taken three penalties this season (including tonight) and missed them all! So he had some neck wanting to take the one tonight so I can see why they are pissed off! He’s got an awful penalty record for Wales too hasn’t he?

Off the top of my head, can only remember him taking one against Panama? That was an awful one, as well!

[insertname]

Dec 9, 2020 10:00:33 GMT dlwilliams said:

Dec 9, 2020 0:09:24 GMT insertname said:

Taken three penalties this season (including tonight) and missed them all! So he had some neck wanting to take the one tonight so I can see why they are pissed off! He’s got an awful penalty record for Wales too hasn’t he?

Off the top of my head, can only remember him taking one against Panama? That was an awful one, as well!

Thanks I think that’s the one I was thinking of, he spannered it IIRC. Should be nowhere near penalty duties.