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Post by hookd on Sept 24, 2017 21:28:50 GMT
He looks like he has the potential to be a wonderful player but he is a Englishman and I wish him luck in his career with England. I am glad you are not our manager! We would have no Ashley Williams, James Chester, Robson-Kanu, Sam Vokes or Ben Woodburn! Goodness his mum is Welsh - the above I believe mostly qualify through a grandparent! As many have said identity is something personal based on experiences, background and influences and many other factors. Every country has a few players in the squad who were not born or brought up in the country. Look at the impact the above players have had! As long as they are committed and understand how much it means to the fans and nation, we should extend the warmest of welcomes and fully back them. Brooks decided to give our U21s a shot after excelling at the Toulon tournament for England. That to me is pretty incredible and I hope he feels he belongs and that us fans have his back - that is a key point of difference we can bring to the average entitled England fan. We can't afford to get all precious about who represents us when no other country could give a toss! |
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Post by iot on Sept 24, 2017 22:13:32 GMT
I think the point thewelshdragon9 has made is legitimate. It doesn't matter what your link is to a nation, if you identify with that nation you should be able to represent them. Obviously you need some eligibility rules in place, but it doesn't matter to me at all about Ash Williams' link to Wales as long as he feels Welsh.
However, with Brooks, he was given a clear choice between us and England just a couple of months ago and chose to turn us down and opt for England - presumably as he feels more English. Unless he's had some sort of life changing experience in the last couple of months, he probably identifies in the same way. Let's be honest, it's pretty clear the only reason e's now representing us is because he wasn't chosen by England and then went with his second preference.
Being completely cynical, I have no problem at all with him representing us because of our tiny player pool and he looks like a brilliant talent. However, as I said, it's understandable to question whether he really feels Welsh or whether he's just pissed off at being turned down by England.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 22:25:42 GMT
Why can't he identify with more than one nation? It's not necessarily a choice of us or them. Perhaps he feels both English and Welsh, because he is.
Let's see how it pans out. Personally I'm confident he'll be a senior Welsh cap inside a year.
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Post by hookd on Sept 24, 2017 22:57:22 GMT
I think the point thewelshdragon9 has made is legitimate. It doesn't matter what your link is to a nation, if you identify with that nation you should be able to represent them. Obviously you need some eligibility rules in place, but it doesn't matter to me at all about Ash Williams' link to Wales as long as he feels Welsh. However, with Brooks, he was given a clear choice between us and England just a couple of months ago and chose to turn us down and opt for England - presumably as he feels more English. Unless he's had some sort of life changing experience in the last couple of months, he probably identifies in the same way. Let's be honest, it's pretty clear the only reason e's now representing us is because he wasn't chosen by England and then went with his second preference. Being completely cynical, I have no problem at all with him representing us because of our tiny player pool and he looks like a brilliant talent. However, as I said, it's understandable to question whether he really feels Welsh or whether he's just pissed off at being turned down by England. How do we know he was turned down by England? At the time he played for England Page stated it was not open and the door was still open to him and it was since suggested that he 'turned down Wales' because England had already asked him and he agreed to play for them. Do you really believe that Williams or Vokes or Robson-Kanu, etc feel Welsh/completely Welsh? They spent all their youth in England and have probably spent more time in Wales when playing for Wales than in their lives. Who do you think they supported when they were 18? I would be amazed if they would not be happy for England to win a tournament if Wales were not involved. If not then they would not be human! I am absolutely passionate about Wales but am not as naive as that. They feel an affinity and the key thing is they give everything to the team, the cause, the shirt and the fans. Some Welsh born and bred players have given much less. I will back anyone 100% if they show commitment to us - you can't look back and judge. The great thing is now we are an attractive alternative to talented English youngsters with some kind of affinity to Wales. We should embrace that rather than trying to undermine it. |
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Post by cadno on Sept 24, 2017 22:58:18 GMT
Why do you say that when his mum is from Llangollen? Birth/Parents etc who cares means nothing, its all about how as an individual you feel. He feels English as clear from his twitter and interviews I have seen. Hope youre wrong, personally feel he'll opt for Wales |
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Post by hookd on Sept 24, 2017 23:03:23 GMT
Sheffield United forward David Brooks swaps England for Wales
25 Aug, 2017
Phil Blanche, Press Association Sport
David Brooks Sheffield United Press Association
Wales are delighted to have David Brooks on board after the Sheffield United forward starred in England's Toulon Tournament success.
Brooks was named the best player at the Under-20 tournament in May after switching allegiance from Wales to England.
The 20-year-old was named by Wales for the same competition in the south of France before withdrawing and being selected for the England squad the following day.
Brooks scored in the Toulon final as England beat the Ivory Coast on penalties, but the Warrington-born player will now represent Wales Under-21s next month.
"I've always said that he was keen to play for Wales and we were never going to close that door on him,'' Intermediate manager Rob Page said after naming Brooks in his squad for UEFA U21 qualifiers against Switzerland and Portugal.
"I had a really positive conversation with him a couple of weeks ago and it was good to see what his thoughts are.
"Only the lad can answer where he sees himself long-term, but what is nice is that he is showing commitment and wants to be part of the squad.
"He's a talent and a good one for us, we are looking forward to bringing him into the camp and working with him
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Post by alarch on Sept 24, 2017 23:23:51 GMT
What Brooks is doing is not that different to the likes of Woodburn and Ampadu, who I'm pretty sure have both been involved with England training camps. Perhaps the weighing up process may take longer with Brooks, but there's every chance he will opt for the Wales seniors. If not, we should just respect his choice.
One thing that may swing it our way is seeing Woodburn land a fat new contract with Liverpool after starring in the last double header. It used to be the case that playing for England carried a huge financial advantage, perhaps with the opportunity to shine on the international stage at an earlier age for Wales, the pendulum has swung the other way. Not the ideal reason for choosing Wales, but it's all grist to the mill as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by raptor on Sept 25, 2017 8:08:42 GMT
Clearly good enough to play for Wales now. Get him capped a.s.a.p. and worry about the rest later. Ditto Ampadu.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 9:32:17 GMT
I do find it a bit strange he was talking about scoring for wales on his twitter, then his pinned tweet is him playing for england..
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Post by alarch on Sept 25, 2017 9:44:12 GMT
Quite frankly, we can't afford to cap Ampadu, Brooks, or anybody else right now just to tie them to Wales. The importance of the fixtures coming up is to great to take risks. If they play, they play purely on merit.
Quite apart from the above argument it will undermine our emotionally intelligent approach to date (manifesting itself by being completely relaxed about dual nationality players going on training camps, etc. with England) if we are seen to be forcing the issue for youngsters. We need to be smart - which we already are. Nothing needs to change.
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Post by texan on Sept 25, 2017 9:58:39 GMT
I think the point thewelshdragon9 has made is legitimate. It doesn't matter what your link is to a nation, if you identify with that nation you should be able to represent them. Obviously you need some eligibility rules in place, but it doesn't matter to me at all about Ash Williams' link to Wales as long as he feels Welsh. However, with Brooks, he was given a clear choice between us and England just a couple of months ago and chose to turn us down and opt for England - presumably as he feels more English. Unless he's had some sort of life changing experience in the last couple of months, he probably identifies in the same way. Let's be honest, it's pretty clear the only reason e's now representing us is because he wasn't chosen by England and then went with his second preference. Being completely cynical, I have no problem at all with him representing us because of our tiny player pool and he looks like a brilliant talent. However, as I said, it's understandable to question whether he really feels Welsh or whether he's just pissed off at being turned down by England. He wasn't actually given a clear 50-50 choice however from what I understand. It certainly looked that way from the outside, Wales announcing his call-up, him withdrawing and then 10 short mins later England announcing him in their squad. But behind the scenes he was in fact contacted by the English FA first and told to expect a call-up, which he/his agent officially accepted. By the time the Welsh call-up was brought to the table quite a few days later...and completely out of the blue...he'd already officially accepted the England one. It could simply be that he honoured his original commitment rather than flip-flop, which is only fair and quite decent of him. As far as we know he perhaps secretly always wanted to go with Wales but never knew that it was even an option and, having already agreed to play for the English in Toulon, didn't want to let anyone down at the last minute once Wales declared an interest. And having had the summer to mull over things at his own leisure with the knowledge that Wales IS INDEED officially an option, his actual preference is to go red and he's now plumped for us. It certainly bodes well however that he tasted life with England, won player of the tournament and a trophy with them and then STILL decided to switch to Wales! Even if he is simply tasting both camps however and is genuinely unsure, he deserves support whichever way he goes, he's just a kid. As an aside, its impossible for me personally to even begin to imagine what it would be like to genuinely have split loyalties, have one parent passionate about England and the other passionate about Wales. |
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Post by texan on Sept 25, 2017 10:04:31 GMT
I do find it a bit strange he was talking about scoring for wales on his twitter, then his pinned tweet is him playing for england.. That pinned tweet's been there for a while, he may have forgotten about it. Even if he hasn't though, the tweet is just about him being proud (like he should be) to have gotten player of the tournament and having played for the team that won the trophy rather than who he won it with. His twitter feed is actually pretty neutral overall, the kid retweets bloody anything, from Swansea City to FC Twente and everything in between. It looks to me as though he's just in love with the game. |
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 25, 2017 10:07:33 GMT
Brooks is the archetypal dual qualified player, one parent Welsh one parent English. You would usually expect them to lean toward the country they spent more time in but that's not definitive, its all down to the individual.
Like Texan, I don't know how this feels as I'm Welsh only. The fact he spent time in both camps but still wanted to play for the u21s bodes well. Hope he sticks with us as he looks a real talent.
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Post by iot on Sept 25, 2017 15:30:18 GMT
Just to be clear, I would love to see him playing for us because he's such a talent. And I wouldn't hold a grudge at all if he did opt for England. I just won't get that excited about him until it's obvious he's sticking with us or I'll be gutted if he does go back to them.
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Post by eppingblue on Sept 25, 2017 16:41:33 GMT
Quite frankly, we can't afford to cap Ampadu, Brooks, or anybody else right now just to tie them to Wales. The importance of the fixtures coming up is to great to take risks. If they play, they play purely on merit. Quite apart from the above argument it will undermine our emotionally intelligent approach to date (manifesting itself by being completely relaxed about dual nationality players going on training camps, etc. with England) if we are seen to be forcing the issue for youngsters. We need to be smart - which we already are. Nothing needs to change. I though that about Woodburn. |
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Post by marsvolta on Sept 25, 2017 20:33:34 GMT
So some are saying he shouldn't play for Wales because he chose England over us in the Toulon tournament, but then he turned down England for Wales in the under 21s.
So are they saying that he shouldn't play for England either?
I'm sure England fans won't be as precious as some of us are being and will be happy to take him despite him choosing Wales over them
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 20:56:43 GMT
Que sera sera.
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Post by richierich333 on Sept 26, 2017 6:40:35 GMT
So some are saying he shouldn't play for Wales because he chose England over us in the Toulon tournament, but then he turned down England for Wales in the under 21s. So are they saying that he shouldn't play for England either? I'm sure England fans won't be as precious as some of us are being and will be happy to take him despite him choosing Wales over them The England/Wales thing aside he is worthy of a place in the squad on merit. Who else is playing really well in midfield at the moment? He'd be a good player to bring on from the bench and I think we should call him up for the qualifiers. The squad was/is getting stale and these young players are a breath of fresh air. Plus as he is a relatively unknown quantity, I think he'd catch Georgia by surprise by coming on for Edwards/King in the second half. |
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Post by welshiron on Sept 26, 2017 7:27:32 GMT
Isn't he more of a striker / No 10?
For me I would keep him in the u21s for now, although I would have no problems if he is called up ahead of Watkins or Bradshaw (as niether of these will be top players)
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Post by welwyn on Sept 26, 2017 8:47:43 GMT
Speaking as someone who is technically only a quarter Welsh and has had to play disability sport for England. As far as I am concerned then if we are considering calling up Brooks on merit, which is evidently possible, then we need to have a discussion with him telling him that we are doing so.
It should be made clear to him that he is not being selected to 'get a feel for being in the squad', we are picking you on merit and it is therefore a realistic possibility that we might need to to come on and help us hopefully get a result. Thereby, letting him know that it is time to make his decision. Then give him as long as is feasibly possible to way it up in his own mind.
He may feel English & Welsh (a bit like me [albeit I feel much more Welsh than English], he may feel one more than the other, it is an entirely personal feeling and there is no way of knowing how he personally feels. I am exceptionally proud of my England caps (as much as I would have preferred them to have been Wales caps) despite supporting Wales in any sport where we have our own national team. However, nationality is more fluid now, if my brother, who qualify's the same way as I do, had been good enough to get picked for us I would have had a serious discussion with him suggesting he possibly shouldn't take it because he doesn't feel the slightest bit Welsh.
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Post by richierich333 on Sept 26, 2017 13:13:01 GMT
Isn't he more of a striker / No 10? For me I would keep him in the u21s for now, although I would have no problems if he is called up ahead of Watkins or Bradshaw (as niether of these will be top players) Well I only caught a bit of the Sheffield derby but he seemed to be all over the pitch so it was hard to pinpoint a position. I just assumed he was midfield/attacking midfield. Some of the stuff he was doing was top drawer. He would fully deserve a place in the squad at least considering he looks way too good for the Championship. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 23:58:48 GMT
He's a lot like Woodurn positionaly. He can drift into the channels, out wide and play number ten. But he looks like he'll be a modern day attacking midfielder.
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 28, 2017 10:03:00 GMT
Congratulations to young David on his call up to the senior squad. What a whirlwind 6 months its been for the young man.
Definitely made the right choice bachgen.
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Post by joio on Sept 28, 2017 10:43:58 GMT
Croeso Dai bach! Excellent choice!
Adrian Durham will have a meltdown this afternoon - he's already started! Just tweeted this:
@talksportdrive 44s44 seconds ago
Wales 23 man squad consists of: 12 Welsh born, 11 English born. Thoughts?
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Post by welshiron on Sept 28, 2017 10:53:53 GMT
Does he mention that 8 of the 11 starters will be Welsh
Nice to see we are being talked about after having so many of years of being ignored!!
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Post by alarch on Sept 28, 2017 11:00:23 GMT
Typical big bruv mentality. Patronising when we're no threat, toys out of pram when little bruv threatens to usurp him.
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Post by cymro on Sept 28, 2017 11:24:01 GMT
Croeso Dai bach! Excellent choice! Adrian Durham will have a meltdown this afternoon - he's already started! Just tweeted this: @talksportdrive 44s44 seconds ago Wales 23 man squad consists of: 12 Welsh born, 11 English born. Thoughts? Since when was nationality dictated strictly by your place of birth. Moron. |
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Post by iot on Sept 28, 2017 11:33:03 GMT
Over 25% of the Welsh population were born in England so it's not that far off
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Post by bracklablue72 on Sept 28, 2017 13:14:53 GMT
Croeso Dai bach! Excellent choice! Adrian Durham will have a meltdown this afternoon - he's already started! Just tweeted this: @talksportdrive 44s44 seconds ago Wales 23 man squad consists of: 12 Welsh born, 11 English born. Thoughts? John Barnes Luther Blissett Bob Hazell (U21) Zavon Hines (U21) Raheem Sterling .........all born in Jamaica Dozens of others born all over Africa ( including South Africa which they plundered particularly during appartite in ALL sports). Two born in wales, one scot, lots of Australians, players born in India, Singapore, Canada, Belgium, Channel Islands ... the list goes on... Adrian Durham is just after controversy, just like piers Morgan |
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Post by toshfan on Sept 28, 2017 13:28:41 GMT
I declare an interest - one that I think I have declared before - in that my three children were born in Isleworth and I have never seen them as anything other than Welsh children.
I do get the hump with those who judge nationality on place of birth alone. It is as wrong as the Tebbit Test was.
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