|
|
Post by cadno on Nov 18, 2017 12:04:13 GMT
Sorry to be a pedant Cadno!!! Just thought I'd chuck your post in here as this thread is enlightening on CR and you also have good posts in here too. Hope you don't mind!... Cadno's post... ....................................................................... Some interesting videos and articles. www.whitecapsfc.com/post/2016/06/15/robinson-helped-guide-golden-generation-welsh-soccerwww.youtube.com/watch?v=spuN_UaJ6KMOsian Roberts clearly rates him: "It will be interesting to see Carl Robinson's next step, I'm sure he'll have an eye on the Wales job in the future, and I'm sure a time will come where Carl will get that privilege. He's going to be careful how he develops his career and develops as a manager because of his hard work and his knowledge." It might be a bit early for him now, but he's my no.1 choice at the moment - definitely ahead of Henry, Bellamy or Giggs. Golden cap- www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Md1EJYyFRI................................................. Going through this thread reminded me of Robinson's credentials and I now come to the conclusion that he should get the job. Young enough to be idealistic and to stick to the job for two tournament cycles, which I can't see any of the other candidates doing. Passionate about Wales, which IS essential. Has good experience and pedigree, but not proven himself so much to the point that he is unavailable. Not only do I reckon Robinson should be our next manager, I think he probably will be our next manager and stuck a bet on at 14-1 which I never usually do. Thanks, I couldn't find this thread! |
|
|
|
Post by bale-droed on Nov 18, 2017 12:29:19 GMT
I love Carl Robinson. I lived in bc for 3 years and went to several whitecap games and no way should he be considered. First of all MLS is dire and way more importantly in a league where (before expansion) 6 of 10 teams make the playoffs he failed to do that in 2016 when the year before they were second. He also failed this at NY
|
|
|
|
Post by CrackityJones on Nov 18, 2017 12:53:35 GMT
I like the idea of Robinson being the man to take us forward but agree that he’s probably not ready yet. Would love to be proved wrong mind.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 16:02:45 GMT
I would agree, that of all the Welsh candidates, Robinson has the strongest credentials. He's obviously thought highly of, especially in Osian Roberts' eyes, which will be a big factor in his favour when it comes to deciding on the new manager. I don't know much about his managerial philosophy and tactical approach to things, but if OR doesn't know then no one will. The only thing I would disagree with is that being passionate about Wales is essential. Being passionate about football, and maximizing the potential of your squad is. I'd much rather appoint a foreigner like Bielsa or Pochettino - who have a passion and intensity about the game than someone who is just passionately Welsh but with little tactical nous. I'm not saying that Robinson doesn't have that nous - I don't know, but we should be looking at a wider field than just passionate Welshmen. That's a really measured point and very persuasive. Agree that Robinson is a relatively unknown quantity as he hasn't been tested outside of the MLS. As you rightly say, we would be reliant on OR for his insight on Robinson's strategic nous and footballing intellect. For this reason I am not 100% on CR and my touting is partly out of blind hope. Though his MLS experience does make him infinitely more qualified than the likes of Giggs, Bellers, Hartson and Henry. I'm not adverse to a non-Welshman coming in. But I would worry that they are less likely to put both feet under the desk. I do think that passion does count for something, particularly with Wales and international football in general, and that tapping into that to strengthen us psychologically is an ideal I would hope we would aspire to. The elevation of national pride Speed gave us when he came in springs to mind. Could this have come from a non-Welshman? I would argue definitely not. But tactics and the more meaning aspects of management are king and should be priority, as you well articulated. So perhaps the best man available to us won't be Welsh. (I still need to read that Potter article you posted) |
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 18, 2017 17:47:59 GMT
I would agree, that of all the Welsh candidates, Robinson has the strongest credentials. He's obviously thought highly of, especially in Osian Roberts' eyes, which will be a big factor in his favour when it comes to deciding on the new manager. I don't know much about his managerial philosophy and tactical approach to things, but if OR doesn't know then no one will. The only thing I would disagree with is that being passionate about Wales is essential. Being passionate about football, and maximizing the potential of your squad is. I'd much rather appoint a foreigner like Bielsa or Pochettino - who have a passion and intensity about the game than someone who is just passionately Welsh but with little tactical nous. I'm not saying that Robinson doesn't have that nous - I don't know, but we should be looking at a wider field than just passionate Welshmen. That's a really measured point and very persuasive. Agree that Robinson is a relatively unknown quantity as he hasn't been tested outside of the MLS. As you rightly say, we would be reliant on OR for his insight on Robinson's strategic nous and footballing intellect. For this reason I am not 100% on CR and my touting is partly out of blind hope. Though his MLS experience does make him infinitely more qualified than the likes of Giggs, Bellers, Hartson and Henry. I'm not adverse to a non-Welshman coming in. But I would worry that they are less likely to put both feet under the desk. I do think that passion does count for something, particularly with Wales and international football in general, and that tapping into that to strengthen us psychologically is an ideal I would hope we would aspire to. The elevation of national pride Speed gave us when he came in springs to mind. Could this have come from a non-Welshman? I would argue definitely not. But tactics and the more meaning aspects of management are king and should be priority, as you well articulated. So perhaps the best man available to us won't be Welsh. (I still need to read that Potter article you posted) It might only be MLS but he's managing a MLS team against another MLS team. He's had to structure the team, coach the team and manage game situations. I'd argue he's learned more about himself than he would managing a Bayern Munich, Celtic or Olympiakos where there is a huge gulf between that team and others in the league. |
|
|
|
Post by joseywales37 on Nov 18, 2017 19:46:34 GMT
Don#t really inspire confidence in me tbh. feels a bit Gouldish lol |
|
|
|
Post by hookd on Nov 18, 2017 20:07:50 GMT
Robinson? What planet are people on? Its like anyone but Giggs. I think I know who Brooks and Ampadu would be more excited by!
|
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 18, 2017 20:30:49 GMT
Robinson? What planet are people on? Its like anyone but Giggs. I think I know who Brooks and Ampadu would be more excited by! If the choice is between a successful coach in Canada who's earned over 50 caps for Wales or a football pundit who's won a few more I'd say Carl Robinson |
|
|
|
Post by hookd on Nov 18, 2017 21:07:11 GMT
Robinson? What planet are people on? Its like anyone but Giggs. I think I know who Brooks and Ampadu would be more excited by! If the choice is between a successful coach in Canada who's earned over 50 caps for Wales or a football pundit who's won a few more I'd say Carl Robinson I guy who was ordinary and who has succeeded in the global leading Canadian football league? Seriously does no one understand? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 21:18:10 GMT
Robinson? What planet are people on? Its like anyone but Giggs. I think I know who Brooks and Ampadu would be more excited by! That's a bit dogmatic isn't it Hookd? Bottom line is Robinson has more experience as a manager than Giggs, so it's not as ludicrous as you're making out. For what it's worth, I think Giggs will be the FAW's first choice. If Giggs were to take the job, those of us who are sceptical given his poor commitment to Wales as a player will naturally get behind him and hope that he succeeds. |
|
|
|
Post by rushlegend on Nov 18, 2017 21:21:43 GMT
Quite right hookd
Carl Robinson??? WTF!!
He was an average (and that is being polite) player - and the guy hasn't managed decent enough players in a decent league FFS!!
|
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 18, 2017 21:48:58 GMT
If the choice is between a successful coach in Canada who's earned over 50 caps for Wales or a football pundit who's won a few more I'd say Carl Robinson I guy who was ordinary and who has succeeded in the global leading Canadian football league? Seriously does no one understand? MLS ain't it? He coaches MLS quality players to beat other MLS quality players. Does it matter what level it is, he's in a competitive league and he's got experience which Giggs doesn't! Would Ampadu and Brooks reconsider Wales based on the manager? I highly doubt it. I'd rather Robinson gave instructions based on what he's experienced coaching a team, any team, rather than Giggs telling people what he saw in an England or Salford City match. He'll know how to relate things to players because he's been doing it for years, he'll know how to structure the team and how to man manage players. Being Ryan Giggs will only last until half time in his first match, from that moment on the players won't judge him as the player, he'll be judged on his abilities to change a match, make instant decisions that'll win and lose games. |
|
|
|
Post by saints19 on Nov 19, 2017 0:37:09 GMT
Quite right hookd Carl Robinson??? WTF!! He was an average (and that is being polite) player - and the guy hasn't managed decent enough players in a decent league FFS!! And who has Giggs managed? I'm not saying Robinson would be anything like my first choice, but in a head to head with Giggs he wins. |
|
|
|
Post by cadno on Nov 19, 2017 8:56:10 GMT
Quite right hookd Carl Robinson??? WTF!! He was an average (and that is being polite) player - and the guy hasn't managed decent enough players in a decent league FFS!! Who gives a fuck what kind of player he was? It's well known to everyone that being a good player doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a good manager, and being an average player doesn't mean you'll be a poor manager, it simply doesn't work like that! Osian Roberts says he's sure Robinson will get the privilege to manage Wales one day, that's good enough for me, I take that he knows more about Robbo's credentials as a manager than anyone on here does!! |
|
|
|
Post by cadno on Nov 19, 2017 8:57:08 GMT
If the choice is between a successful coach in Canada who's earned over 50 caps for Wales or a football pundit who's won a few more I'd say Carl Robinson I guy who was ordinary and who has succeeded in the global leading Canadian football league? Seriously does no one understand? Osian Roberts seems to understand! |
|
|
|
Post by robin1864 on Nov 19, 2017 10:22:57 GMT
I wouldn't mind Robinson. People are forgetting Toshack managed a mid-table Second Division team in Spain, Speed was managing Blades in League One and Cookie was managing a bunch of no-marks in Greece all before managing Wales.
Giggs might bring some feel good factor in the short term, but I would rather someone who's managed to be in charge if we found ourselves in a crunch game.
|
|
|
|
Post by pendragon on Nov 19, 2017 13:30:45 GMT
Don#t really inspire confidence in me tbh. feels a bit Gouldish lol Those are my feelings too I'm afraid. He seems like a great guy, very committed, young (would nurture the youngsters and encourage their development), progressive but.... considering where Wales are at now, I wonder whether he has the right profile for it. If we were considering him pre-Euro qualifiers then I'd be very open to it. As to where we are now, I'm unsure. That said, I'm very unsure about the other candidates too tbh.. None of them particularly stand out, but some slightly nip others to the post for me. |
|
|
|
Post by haruki on Nov 19, 2017 15:40:19 GMT
That's a really measured point and very persuasive. Agree that Robinson is a relatively unknown quantity as he hasn't been tested outside of the MLS. As you rightly say, we would be reliant on OR for his insight on Robinson's strategic nous and footballing intellect. For this reason I am not 100% on CR and my touting is partly out of blind hope. Though his MLS experience does make him infinitely more qualified than the likes of Giggs, Bellers, Hartson and Henry. I'm not adverse to a non-Welshman coming in. But I would worry that they are less likely to put both feet under the desk. I do think that passion does count for something, particularly with Wales and international football in general, and that tapping into that to strengthen us psychologically is an ideal I would hope we would aspire to. The elevation of national pride Speed gave us when he came in springs to mind. Could this have come from a non-Welshman? I would argue definitely not. But tactics and the more meaning aspects of management are king and should be priority, as you well articulated. So perhaps the best man available to us won't be Welsh. (I still need to read that Potter article you posted) It might only be MLS but he's managing a MLS team against another MLS team. He's had to structure the team, coach the team and manage game situations. I'd argue he's learned more about himself than he would managing a Bayern Munich, Celtic or Olympiakos where there is a huge gulf between that team and others in the league. In that case let's take a League of Wales Manager |
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 20, 2017 10:24:27 GMT
It might only be MLS but he's managing a MLS team against another MLS team. He's had to structure the team, coach the team and manage game situations. I'd argue he's learned more about himself than he would managing a Bayern Munich, Celtic or Olympiakos where there is a huge gulf between that team and others in the league. In that case let's take a League of Wales Manager You mean the Welsh Premier League? Would Giggs or Bellamy win the Welsh Premier with any team except for TNS without using their contacts to bring in players? This is what I'm trying to get at, does Giggs know how to dribble through 10 players? Yes. Does he know how to pull a young lad aside and coach him to do it? I'm saying no. |
|
|
|
Post by cymruramdcfc on Nov 20, 2017 10:36:21 GMT
In that case let's take a League of Wales Manager You mean the Welsh Premier League? Would Giggs or Bellamy win the Welsh Premier with any team except for TNS without using their contacts to bring in players? This is what I'm trying to get at, does Giggs know how to dribble through 10 players? Yes. Does he know how to pull a young lad aside and coach him to do it? I'm saying no. is that not Osians job? has he not done this already? with Osian to be no2 is minimum we need and with a manger that can work with him. |
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 20, 2017 10:46:23 GMT
You mean the Welsh Premier League? Would Giggs or Bellamy win the Welsh Premier with any team except for TNS without using their contacts to bring in players? This is what I'm trying to get at, does Giggs know how to dribble through 10 players? Yes. Does he know how to pull a young lad aside and coach him to do it? I'm saying no. is that not Osians job? has he not done this already? with Osian to be no2 is minimum we need and with a manger that can work with him. Yeah he can, but why should he have to work twice as hard when he already does well above what he should do to cover Giggs or Bellamy? They could give me the job and make Osian Roberts do all the hard work. Why not just get someone competent in? |
|
|
|
Post by cymruramdcfc on Nov 20, 2017 11:47:11 GMT
is that not Osians job? has he not done this already? with Osian to be no2 is minimum we need and with a manger that can work with him. Yeah he can, but why should he have to work twice as hard when he already does well above what he should do to cover Giggs or Bellamy? They could give me the job and make Osian Roberts do all the hard work. Why not just get someone competent in? you assuming Giggs and Bellamy wont do this or competent? i can imagine young players will be looking up to both of them as lot do now. |
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Nov 20, 2017 12:28:44 GMT
In that case let's take a League of Wales Manager You mean the Welsh Premier League? Would Giggs or Bellamy win the Welsh Premier with any team except for TNS without using their contacts to bring in players? This is what I'm trying to get at, does Giggs know how to dribble through 10 players? Yes. Does he know how to pull a young lad aside and coach him to do it? I'm saying no. I doubt Guardiola could win the WPL with anyone but TNS at this point tbh |
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 20, 2017 12:52:37 GMT
Yeah he can, but why should he have to work twice as hard when he already does well above what he should do to cover Giggs or Bellamy? They could give me the job and make Osian Roberts do all the hard work. Why not just get someone competent in? you assuming Giggs and Bellamy wont do this or competent? i can imagine young players will be looking up to both of them as lot do now. When they're taking on the best squad we've ever had with absolutely zero experience yeah I'm going to assume that will be incompetent because they have no track record to prove me otherwise. Mess about giving an unexperienced manager a go when we're seeded in pot 4 or 5 and having nothing to lose, not when we're looking like we can actually do something. I'd give Bellamy a go with a age group because he has experience working with a youth academy, but leave the main job up to someone who's had the main job before. I don't want a sales person as manager, I don't care how many tickets they'll sell, leave selling tickets up to the FAW sales team. I just want a football manager as Wales manager. If Giggs will motivate Ampadu and Brooks brilliant, give him a role as a coach. From listening to his analysis on games though the thought of Giggs giving tactical advice in the changing room makes me cringe. |
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Nov 20, 2017 12:55:57 GMT
You mean the Welsh Premier League? Would Giggs or Bellamy win the Welsh Premier with any team except for TNS without using their contacts to bring in players? This is what I'm trying to get at, does Giggs know how to dribble through 10 players? Yes. Does he know how to pull a young lad aside and coach him to do it? I'm saying no. I doubt Guardiola could win the WPL with anyone but TNS at this point tbh I'd give the manager at Cardiff Met a go above half the names linked with Wales. I wish that was a joke of an over exaggeration but I honestly would. |
|
|
|
Post by ae15 on Nov 20, 2017 13:09:35 GMT
Robinson could either be a long term, progressive coach, or Paul Trollope.
|
|
|
|
Post by saints19 on Nov 20, 2017 13:23:38 GMT
Quite right hookd Carl Robinson??? WTF!! He was an average (and that is being polite) player - and the guy hasn't managed decent enough players in a decent league FFS!! What level did Mourinho play at again? |
|
|
|
Post by saints19 on Nov 20, 2017 13:25:20 GMT
You mean the Welsh Premier League? Would Giggs or Bellamy win the Welsh Premier with any team except for TNS without using their contacts to bring in players? This is what I'm trying to get at, does Giggs know how to dribble through 10 players? Yes. Does he know how to pull a young lad aside and coach him to do it? I'm saying no. I doubt Guardiola could win the WPL with anyone but TNS at this point tbh Don't know about that, he could finance a full time squad out of his own pocket pretty easily. |
|
|
|
Post by cymroircarn on Nov 20, 2017 13:28:51 GMT
Robinson could either be a long term, progressive coach, or Paul Trollope. Trollope was a disaster at Cardiff, no thanks. Coach yes, manager no |
|
|
|
Post by ae15 on Nov 20, 2017 13:40:10 GMT
Robinson could either be a long term, progressive coach, or Paul Trollope. Trollope was a disaster at Cardiff, no thanks. Coach yes, manager no I'm saying Robinson could be of the standard of him haha. |
|
